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  1. #1
    Blau&Gruen's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Peace Talk between the Syrian Republic and Israel under the supervision of the Turkish Republic have been officially announced. I think this is one of the best news these days and if the negotiations are eventuelly successful then this will change profoundly the eastmeditteranean region.

    My question is:

    How could profon changes look like in the region, if it comes to an official peace agreement? What are the advantages of a peace agreement?

    Please, use your immagination and discuss the question.


    Israel and Syria Say They Are Holding Peace Talks in Turkey

    -New York Times Online Edition 22th May -

    JERUSALEM — Israel and Syria have begun indirect peace talks, mediated by Turkey, aimed at reaching a comprehensive peace accord, the three governments announced in a coordinated statement Wednesday. The disclosure was the first public confirmation of the negotiations by all three sides.

    The two most senior officials in Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s office have been leading the Israeli negotiations and were in Istanbul on Wednesday, talking through Turkish mediators to their Syrian counterparts, Mr. Olmert’s office said.

    The disclosure of the talks is official confirmation of what was already widely suspected of being ongoing contact between Syria and Israel, directed by Turkey. In the past months, Israel had been reluctant to make the negotiations public. But the negotiations now seem to have made enough progress that all sides decided they should acknowledge the meetings.

    A senior official in Mr. Olmert’s office, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the talks with Syria and the decision to make them public had been coordinated and agreed with the United States.

    The public disclosure that Israel, albeit indirectly, is talking with Syria, one of its most implacable enemies and a sponsor of groups that both Israel and the United States consider terrorists, came less than a week after President Bush, speaking to the Israeli Parliament, created a stir by criticizing those who would negotiate with “terrorists and radicals.”

    Mr. Bush’s remarks have become an issue in the American presidential campaign because they were widely perceived as a rebuke to Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic front-runner, who has advocated the kind of engagement that Israel and Syria are now undertaking.

    “The two sides stated their intention to conduct these talks in good faith and with an open mind,” a statement from Mr. Olmert’s office said, referring to Israel and Syria.

    “They decided to pursue the dialogue between them in a serious and continuous way, in order to achieve the goal of comprehensive peace,” it said, thanking Turkey for its mediation.

    Turkey is a close ally of the United States. It is also Syria’s neighbor and has an interest in securing regional peace.

    Mr. Erdogan’s office confirmed the talks in Istanbul, but refused to say where in the city they were being held, or when they began. Mr. Erdogan has been working on convening negotiations for some time, an official in his office said, including holding phone conversations with leaders on both sides, and assigning a special envoy to handle the diplomatic back-and-forth.

    Turkey, Israel and Syria agreed not to disclose details about the talks and to limit themselves to written public statements like those on Wednesday, the official said. “It’s a good beginning,” the official said. “We’ve reached an important phase.”

    Turkey, a Muslim country whose government is secular, has positioned itself as an important mediator in international politics in recent years, particularly with the Muslim world.

    Talks between Iranian and European officials on nuclear enrichment were held in Ankara last year. The government has even invited Hamas, though backpedaled after American officials protested. The new role as mediator, Western officials say, reflects Turkey’s increased confidence and independence, after decades of unquestioned support of American policy.

    The statement however gave no details of what progress might have been made between Israel and Syria.

    Negotiations between the two countries broke off in 2000 amid disagreement over the extent of a possible withdrawal by Israel from the Golan Heights. Israel captured the area from Syria in 1967 and extended Israeli law and administration to the area in 1981.

    In April, a Syrian cabinet minister said that Mr. Olmert had sent a message to President Bashar al-Assad of Syria to the effect that Israel would be willing to withdraw from all the Golan Heights in return for peace with Syria.

    At the time, the Syrian expatriate affairs minister, Buthaina Shaaban, told Al Jazeera television, “Olmert is ready for peace with Syria on the grounds of international conditions; on the grounds of the return of the Golan Heights in full to Syria.”

    The new talks date back to Mr. Olmert’s first visit to Turkey in Feb. 2007 when he and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan held a one-on-one meeting and decided that Ankara would play a role as mediator, a senior official in the Israeli prime minister’s office who spoke on the condition of anonymity said.

    In the latest talks, the Israeli officials — led by Mr. Olmert’s chief of staff and his chief diplomatic adviser — had been in the Turkish capital since Monday and were due to return to Israel on Thursday, the official in Mr. Olmert’s office said. The official said the sides had examined carefully past efforts at seeking a peace accord and were aware where mistakes had been made.

    Critics of Mr. Olmert in Israel, where the prime minister is maintaining his innocence in a bribery investigation, contend that he is using the diplomatic initiative to divert attention from his domestic troubles, but Mr. Olmert’s office denied there was any relation between the two issues.

    Withdrawal from the Golan Heights is a contentious issue in Israel. The territory is a strategic plateau that overlooks a large swath of northern Israel. Israel has objected to past Syrian demands for access to the shore of the Sea of Galilee, a main water source for Israel.

    Those in Israel who favor a deal with Syria, however, contend it would take Syria out of the Iranian sphere and end Syrian support for some groups hostile to Israel, such as the Lebanese Hezbollah and Hamas.

    Ethan Bronner reported from Jerusalem and Graham Bowley from New York. Sabrina Tavernise contributed reporting from Istanbul. Isabel Kershner contributed reporting from Jerusalem.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Once agian Turkey is at the forefront at bringing peace. Bravo Turkey! Bravo!

  3. #3
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    This is good news, but some right wingers believe the Golan Heights is inherently part of Israel. Syria is not known for its negotiation skillz either. But its a start at least.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Turkish Sultan View Post
    Once agian Turkey is at the forefront at bringing peace. Bravo Turkey! Bravo!
    what do you think of PM Erdogan? What do you think of the judiciary and army trying to get rid of him?




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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by The Turkish Sultan View Post
    Once agian Turkey is at the forefront at bringing peace. Bravo Turkey! Bravo!
    Perhaps Turkey should stop occupying Cyprus before asking Israel to stop occupying Golan.


    ------------------------


    At the peace deal, anytime peace is discussed is a good thing. It shows that the Arabs are growing to accept Israel as a country and better than them war and maybe then they will stop trying to use war was the only solution and perhaps even co exist for the time being occupations which are illegal have to stop in return fro a lasting peace deal.


    And to people who say bla blah blah the arabs always attack Israel...there has only been two peace deals with Israel Jordan and Egypt, the other times they were still in a state of war but with only a ceasefire, a peace deal is far more secure.

  5. #5
    Valentin the II's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    If they give the Golan heights back they are fliping idiots.
    This teritory is to important (strategically) to just give up.
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    In contrast to the efforts of tiny Israel to make contributions to the world so as to better mankind, one has to ask what have those who have strived to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth done other than to create hate and bloodshed.

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    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Giving them the Golan Hights wouldn't be very wise act to do. The Syrian regime is not very stable, Syria is allied with Iran and both are enemies of Israel and the Golan Hights has a stratigical value.
    Sigh...

  7. #7
    Blau&Gruen's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    I think it is maybe too early in the moment to decide if this leads somewhere or not. You can say on the other hand, it is interesting that the discussions have now been officially confirmed. It shows that there is an interest the relations to settle sooner or later, when the time is ready.

    It has been too early maybe to open up the kind of thread as there has been a similar a few days back.

    I was just wondering if the not so new news about the discussions between Syria and Israel under the support of Turkey are a topic down there at all.
    Last edited by Blau&Gruen; May 21, 2008 at 02:49 PM.
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    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin the II View Post
    If they give the Golan heights back they are fliping idiots.
    This teritory is to important (strategically) to just give up.
    look at what giving up sinai did for them, they now have lasting peace with a far more western oriented egypt.

    concessions do sometimes bring reward. we all know syria could not take on israel militarily any time soon, and they wouldnt dream of it. however if israel can get concessions out of syria over their support of hezbollah, it would be a profound change for the region, possibly the most profound change since 1948.

    this is the first time i have seen israel prepared to give enough concessions to make peace actually possible in the region.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azael33 View Post
    Giving them the Golan Hights wouldn't be very wise act to do. The Syrian regime is not very stable, Syria is allied with Iran and both are enemies of Israel and the Golan Hights has a stratigical value.
    the syrian regime is one of the most stable in the region, their leadership has not changed in any dramatic way since 1970. the whole point of peace with them would be to remove them from this alliance with iran. how do you remove them from this alliance without talking to them? the golden rule about diplomacy is you have to be prepared to give concessions, if you want something earth shattering from your opponent... if israel were to simply sit there and go "break your alliance" without offering something major, syria would laugh at them (and continue sending weapons and money to all israels enemies).
    Last edited by antea; May 21, 2008 at 04:37 PM.
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  9. #9
    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by antea View Post
    the syrian regime is one of the most stable in the region, their leadership has not changed in any dramatic way since 1970. the whole point of peace with them would be to remove them from this alliance with iran. how do you remove them from this alliance without talking to them? the golden rule about diplomacy is you have to be prepared to give concessions, if you want something earth shattering from your opponent... if israel were to simply sit there and go "break your alliance" without offering something major, syria would laugh at them (and continue sending weapons and money to all israels enemies).
    The Syrian regime is not stable and it is endangered by Islamists as the Asad is of the Alawites minority, and is Shi'ite. They tried to crush the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria at 1982 in the Hama massacre, and did it successfully, but the stability of Syria is interrupted by Iran. Not to mention it is depended on Iran.

    There is no reason to believe they will break the alliance with Iran.

    this is the first time i have seen israel prepared to give enough concessions to make peace actually possible in the region.
    What about Egypt-Israeli peace agreement? And Camp David 2000?
    Sigh...

  10. #10

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Well for starters, any peace deal between Israel and Syria would seek to minimize the influence that Iran has over Hizbullah and Hamas, especially with Syria acting as a middle grounds for the transportation of arms to Hizbullah. The status of Hizbullah is perhaps the most interesting question that would come out of any peace deal, and the role it would then take in Lebanese political arena.

    The Syrian regime is not very stable
    As compared to what, the Israeli government?
    Last edited by Major.Stupidity; May 21, 2008 at 03:01 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Due to technological advances the Golan is no longer the strategic necessity it used to be, the main reservations about giving the land now according to israeli political analysts is that it is a beautiful countryside and Israelis consider it part of Israel and they like to hike there.

    In the words of an Israeli political analyst, if you have to choose between lasting peace and a hike or two. I know which one i'd choose.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    yaehhhhhhhhhhhhh thats good.



    Turkey should declare war on Israel.

  13. #13
    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by GH@Z! View Post
    yaehhhhhhhhhhhhh thats good.



    Turkey should declare war on Israel.
    Why would Turkey do that?
    Sigh...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Because everybody knows (as half Arab myself) Arabs are lazy. We can never get anything done.

  15. #15
    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    The Arab armies are basically crap, that is why the Arabs never destroyed Israel.
    Sigh...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    No, were just lazy.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    I blame Syria.

  18. #18
    Aziel's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Spamurai View Post
    I blame Syria.
    For..?
    Sigh...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    I blame Britan.

  20. #20
    christof139's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Peace Talks between Syria and Israel

    True. Ask any Israeli that fought against the Arabs and they will tell you it wasn't easy.

    Chris

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