need phalanx counter tips

[Angrychris]

ive used phalanx many times but have forgotten good ways of countering it. i often found going around and attacking them from the back does little with calvary but litte more with infantry as well. any tips?

[Xavier Dragnesi]

The best way to counter phalanxes is also the easiest and most simple way to do it: Keep them occupied at the front with your average troops, then hit them from the flanks or back with your elites. They're death rates should go down in tens

[HeroSK]

Agreed with Xavier Dragnesi. In one of my online games, my opponent used that tactic with carthage aganist my macedonian army. I lined up my phalanx army and my opponent deployed iberian infantry at middle and sacred bands at rear. Attacked with iberians from front , and sacreds from rear with sword. I nearly lost that battle but really enjoyed it.

The real phalanx killers are Romans. As romans use your pila, it is deadly aganist phalanxes. Also make your units wider then phalanx units and surround them.

Further, try to win cavalry battle, then you can charge from back while you pinnig them with your infantry.

However, in hands of skilled players, phalanxes are really hard to beat.

Good luck

Edit; you can look here for more tips
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155853

[Angrychris]

im playing single campagn and in sieges or large number open field battles it is almost impossible to get around them without losing mass numbers.

[HeroSK]

im playing single campagn and in sieges or large number open field battles it is almost impossible to get around them without losing mass numbers.

What faction are you using ?

[Strom]

Hit the phalanx from all sides with cavalry (delay the squadron heading towards the pointy bits until they switch to a new direction, obviously.) Very few phalanxes can take a multi-direction cavalry charge without routing and, if they do, you can always pull back and charge again. If you just charge them in the rear then they'll turn around and munch on your cavalry, it pays off to get significant local superiority and surround them.

If you play as Egypt you have cheap, numerous, axe wielding cavalry as your first cavalry and you get to fight against phalanxes, often low morale ones, early on so you can practice.

With an all cavalry force if you run two thirds of it in one direction and a third in the other direction then the AI will try to rotate its force to face your larger force but its phalanxes will lose cohesion which lets you isolate individual phalanxes and defeat them in detail and, often, to pick off the enemy general as well.

[Al Merko]

If you fight phalanx enemy under his conditions you will loose. The point with wall of phalanx is that you must brake it. You can do that with maneuvering and using the terrain to your advantage. Do not under any circumstance attack phalanx frontally or uphill.
As said before, use your average troops to keep them busy (AI and noobs will usually try to engage one of you units). Move away from deadly pikes and swing around and hit them in flank of behind. Also, missile troops can do lot of damage, but again don't attack the front.
In sieges don't attack the gates guarded by phalanx. Scale the was and use towers and missile troops to thin their numbers. Phalanx units cant use pikes on walls and almost any infantry can kick their ass when they use just swords. If you are attacking wooden wall defenses just make more holes in wall than opponent has phalanxes.

[Angrychris]

some good points, i hate how so much effort has to be put into defeating basic unit phalanx troops. im playing as parthia and seluicids keep pushing me back with their phalanx militia. i have problems when they recapture towns and other factions r starting to apply pressure now.


1 stack of merc hosplites just killed 3 stacks of my hill men and 1 stack of eastern infantry on my stone wall. this is going to be frustrating.

[HeroSK]

some good points, i hate how so much effort has to be put into defeating basic unit phalanx troops. im playing as parthia and seluicids keep pushing me back with their phalanx militia. i have problems when they recapture towns and other factions r starting to apply pressure now.

I love horse archers and great fan of Parthia. Since they lack good quality infatry, you should prevend enemy from besieging your cities. Attack them in open fileds.

As parthia, I developed a strategy for sieging a city. Sent a numerically lesser army and siege the city. AI thinks it can handle with this army and usually sallies fort (not always). Then, in battle map, while enemy trying to come from gate they become dense which is great target for horseachers. Shoot them until you run out of ammo. If you have enough HA, enemy will be defeated before your ammo finishes if not move back and try to tire them. Then hunt them one by one.Btw, be careful about gatehouse arrows.

Also, if there is cavalry or general in the city it comes from a rear gate, reserve some units to them and try to kill enemy general.



Its really fun playing with HA, but I must admit it requires more micromanagament then other type of battles.

Happy Hunting..

[feroXXXed35]

u should use archers and horse archers
cataphracts are decent too

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

I generally use a good balance of archer units, legionaries, and cavalry. You line up the legionaries in front of the phalanx on fire at will mode so that if the bastards advance you're ready for them. Keep your archers behind the legionaries and riddle them with arrows (preferably from the flanks if you can manage, rear is ideal). Then after you've pummeled them with every missile you have the legionaries attack a portion of the phalanx (a flank works best). This will give you a numbers edge on that side, and hopefully force the other units to break the line and come to their comrades aid. Once the line cohesion is broken, hit the rest of the phalanx with your infantry. At this time your cavalry should be hovering around their rear (drive off any cavalry they have as soon as you can), once the enemy is tied up in the fight attack the most hard pressed units with your cavalry. They should break and run. After that it's just a matter of repeating the maneuver and rolling up their line.

[Xavier Dragnesi]

Any missile based troops firing at the backs of a phalanx can cause absolute havoc. Basically, do anything with the rear of a phalanx (provided that they are engaged from the front) should quite easily rout them.

[Selifator]

My counter for a phalanx-based army would be my Scythian army. I use the two strengths of the Scythians, mobility and striking power. My mobility consists of my Maidens and Horse Archers, my striking power is my archers and Maidens.
Players using a phalanx army will usually have about 6-8 units of phalanx, most of the times upgraded. Supporting troops are mostly but not limited to heavy cavalry(4-6 units), light cavalry (4-6 units), archers (6-8 units) and elephants (1-2 units). Other less seen units are peltasts and chariots, though chariots feature more with Pontus and Egypt. They will replace the cavalry with chariots.
The player will make a phalanx line with his archers either in front or rear of his phalanx, his cavalry at the deep flanks of his phalanx and other troops at the rear or extreme flanks.
If the player has artillery he will wait for you to engage, if he has not, then he will move forward. His plan will be to fire arrows at your own archers or your infantry, engage and overpower your front line of infantry and take out your cavalry with his own. The cavalry will then support his phalanx troops, while the archers will shoot at rallied units.

My counter is simple, I do not have infantry. The enemy can not engage my infantry with his own, since I do not have them, and those troops will be useless and the money will be wasted. I will shoot his archers with my own, and move my horse archers to strike the rear of his troops (priority is artillery, cavalry, archers). My maidens will move to the flanks, with some remaining to protect my archers.
The enemy player can only strike using his cavalry, they will probably react to my horse archers and lose men while also getting tired. My maidens will then engage his cavalry and kill them.
After the cavalry has died, the archers have been decimated and I will finish them off. After the archers have died the enemy will always move into a circle to protect his pikemen.
This makes it all the easier to kill them with my remaining archers and horse archers. After this has been done I will pour all my archers, maidens and horse archers into his circle and rout the remaining units.

This tactic requires either Egypt or Scythia, since they both have cheap troops that can be effective. Also, you must be swift in your attack and not hold back. It will require some time to get used to this, but against phalanx armies or roman armies, succes is almost guaranteed.

[Selifator]

I use that tactic as well, it's the one reason I laugh at people who say that you can't take cities without infantry. With only horse archers you can run rings around the AI without him ever noticing he's getting tired and you are taking the city.

[Gaius Flavius Belisarius]

I use that tactic as well, it's the one reason I laugh at people who say that you can't take cities without infantry. With only horse archers you can run rings around the AI without him ever noticing he's getting tired and you are taking the city.

I routinely take cities with only cavalry. I actually find it easier and less costly than assaulting the bloody things.

[htismaqe]

I routinely take cities with only cavalry. I actually find it easier and less costly than assaulting the bloody things.

You just have to make sure you have a good spy to open the gates, or wait for them to sally out to meet you.

[Angrychris]

horse archers r my least favorite units because of how cheap you can be with them. but in this case i think the npc deserves it and now relly heavily on horse archers and archers. though i wish it was easier to get archers, but seeing how i need to develop citys and have $, it takes alittle bit of time. slingers arent doing it for me.

[Angrychris]

well i can thin them out with archers, seeing how i still lose a majority of the battles but they suffer more then double the loses. i have exstreme trouble with directing soldiers around an enemy army when they have 1100+ men. the seluicids are a thorn in my ass more so now then any other campaign prior.

[Aristarchus]

... i have extreme trouble with directing soldiers around an enemy army when they have 1100+ men. the seluicids are a thorn in my ass more so now then any other campaign prior.

In tough phalanx-based armies, I've found the cavalry battle has to be won first - get the enemy horses or chariots off the field. Then use cavalry units as decoys, walking them temptingly close to a phalanx to get it to move out of position. Likewise, infantry units walk to flanking positions, spread out. The enemy gets confused and breaks rank. Then send missiles at the closest enemy phalanxes where their sides or rears are exposed, and methodically surround and destroy each unit. Cavalry units have to be spared to hit a routing phalanx right away so it does not get a chance to reform.

[Selifator]

What you can do is literally hit-and-run battles, use only horse archers, archers and cavalry to protect them. Shoot all missile troops and then thin out the other units. Withdraw when you can't hold out or when you've run out of missiles.