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  1. #1
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    WASHINGTON — Close your eyes, reach into your wallet and try to distinguish between a $1 bill and a $5 bill. Impossible? It's also discriminatory, a federal appeals court says.

    Since all paper money feels pretty much the same, the government is denying blind people meaningful access to the currency, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled Tuesday. The decision could force the Treasury Department to make bills of different sizes or print them with raised markings or other distinguishing features.

    The American Council of the Blind sued for such changes, but the government has been fighting the case for about six years.

    The U.S. acknowledges the current design hinders blind people, but it argues that they have adapted. Some rely on store clerks to help, some use credit cards and others fold certain corners to help distinguish between bills.

    "I don't think we should have to rely on people to tell us what our money is," said Mitch Pomerantz, the Council of the Blind president.

    Others say they manage but not always easily.

    "When I pay for something and I get change back, I'm very slow and methodical. I'll ask, 'Is this the 10? Is this the five? Is this the one?"' said Kim Charlson, the library director at the Perkins School for the Blind, which is Helen Keller's alma mater.

    Some use electronic currency readers. But they can be expensive, and they sometimes have problems with new $20 bills.

    "It's slow," said Sam McClain, who manages a snack shop in a legislative office building near the Georgia Capitol. He has a currency reader but usually relies on the honesty of his customers. "Sometimes I have 10 or 15 people in here, and I can't use it."

    The court ruled 2-1 that such adaptations were insufficient under the Rehabilitation Act. The government might as well argue that there's no need to make buildings accessible to wheelchairs because handicapped people can crawl on all fours or ask passers-by for help, the court said.

    "Even the most searching tactile examination will reveal no difference between a $100 bill and a $1 bill. The secretary has identified no reason that requires paper currency to be uniform to the touch," Judge Judith W. Rogers wrote for the majority.

    Courts don't decide how to design currency. That's up to the Treasury Department, and the ruling forces the department to address what the court called a discriminatory problem.

    That could still take years. But since blindness becomes more common with age, people in their 30s and 40s should know that, when they get older, "they will be able to identify their $1 bills from their fives, tens and twenties," said Pomerantz, of the Council of the Blind.

    Redesigned bills could also mean more job opportunities, since employers often hesitate to hire blind workers for jobs handling money, said Charlson, of the Perkins School for the Blind.

    "When there are so few things in your life that you've got total control over, being able to even take care of your own money is such a big step, without requiring someone to tell you whether you've got enough money to go out and get a beer or have a hamburger," she said.

    The government could ask for a rehearing by the full appeals court or challenge the decision to the Supreme Court.

    Treasury Department spokeswoman Brookly McLaughlin said the department was reviewing the opinion. She noted that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which prints the nation's currency, recently hired a contractor to consider ways to help the blind. The results will be available early next year, she said.

    While the government has been fighting to overturn the lower court ruling, it has been taking some steps toward modifying U.S. currency for the visually impaired. The most recent currency redesign of the $5 bill introduced in March features a giant "5" printed in purple on one side of the bill to help those with vision problems distinguish the bill.

    Indeed, Treasury has previously considered making different sizes of bills but ran into opposition from makers of vending and change machines. Government lawyers raised this issue in court, saying it could cost billions to redesign vending machines. But the court said such data are murky, especially since one proposed solution would be to leave $1 bills unchanged.

    Given recent U.S. redesigns, the appeals court ruled the U.S. failed to explain why adding more changes would be an undue burden. More than 100 other countries vary the size of their bills, a federal judge said in 2006, and others include at least some features to help the blind. The appeals court said the U.S. never explained why such solutions wouldn't work here.

    Not all blind people agree that U.S. money should be changed. The National Federation of the Blind sided with the government and told the appeals court that no changes were needed.

    Charlie Richardson, the legally blind manager of Charlie's Express Stop inside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y., said he doesn't oppose changing the money but disagrees with the ruling.

    "To actually be discriminated against is to have something denied to you," Richardson said. "We're not denied the use of money."
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356727,00.html

    So what do you think? Do you want different sized bills like the Europeans have? Is same sized paper money really discriminatory or is this more of the tyranny of the disabled?
    Last edited by scottishranger; May 21, 2008 at 05:47 PM.
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  2. #2
    God-Emperor of Mankind's Avatar Apperently I protect
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Good idea and while you are at it, make them less greasy.
    Seriously, most of the dollars I get from american customers are just so damn greasy that it feels like touch wool.

  3. #3
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Do you want different sized bills like the Euroweenies have?
    I can answer that for all you Americans: NO, you don't.

    It's really impractical because the smaller bills get lost between the larger ones, and the largest ones don't even fit in a wallet unless you fold them twice except if your ass is so fat that you're comfortable carrying around a large enough wallet.

    Is same sized paper money really discriminatory or is this more of the tyranny of the disabled?
    Legal issues aside, a simple raised marking to make the daily lives of millions of fellow citizens a little easier would be a kind gesture I think.

    Just one more thing: I have 20/20 vision, but I still can't tell your Mickey Mouse money apart.
    What's up with all that green?

    I believe Australia has the best money, am I correct?



  4. #4

    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    I can answer that for all you Americans: NO, you don't.

    It's really impractical because the smaller bills get lost between the larger ones, and the largest ones don't even fit in a wallet unless you fold them twice except if your ass is so fat that you're comfortable carrying around a large enough wallet.
    It's your own lack of planning.

    I have no problems having everything fit my wallet. And if your wallet is still old tiny one, you have used it so long that it's time to change anyway.

    Nor do I lose bills there, I organize stuff. It's this incredible talent of taking couple seconds to put small bills first, then bigger until your money is staggered by size. Also makes it easy to quickly assess how much money you at least have.
    Last edited by Tiwaz; May 21, 2008 at 02:03 AM.


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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    My question is how does a blind person know how much something costs? That seems like a bigger problem to me, but I guess I pay for almost everything with a debit-card. Real money is so passe.

  6. #6
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    My question is how does a blind person know how much something costs? That seems like a bigger problem to me, but I guess I pay for almost everything with a debit-card. Real money is so passe.
    I believe I've seen price tags with brale on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

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  7. #7
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    "Tyranny of the disabled"? Wait so because me and others just want to be treated like everyone else we are advocating tyranny?

    Why not add brail to the bills?
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  8. #8
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    I don't see why varying the size of the money would be a problem.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    i actually think this is a valid concern for blind people. Isn't it annoying that you have to ask others to differentiate the money in your pocket?
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  10. #10
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    i actually think this is a valid concern for blind people. Isn't it annoying that you have to ask others to differentiate the money in your pocket?
    What about "the others"?
    If blind people asked me to help them out all the time I would get really annoyed.



  11. #11

    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Raised marking on the bill sure, different sizes? No thanks and any government suit that tries that solution should be beaten with a stick..it would be HIGHLY annoying. Im all for introducing the markings on the bills however.

  12. #12
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    I don't see why varying the size of the money would be a problem.
    For one, it'd be a logistical hassle to start printing various-sized bills. Simply having raised markings is a LOT easier to do, and is less crazy than completely remodelling the size and scale of our currency.

    Second, it's the principle of the thing. If you totally acquiesce to one special-interesting complaint, it opens the door to all of them, which ends up making everything chaotic, and in the long run, even more unfair than it was before.

  13. #13
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Raised makings I'm all for.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Did you know being born into wealth or marrying into wealth really shows you never did anything to earn it?
    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Hmmm I've never though of that.

  15. #15
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    i doubt a slight change in size is really going to bother ANY of you.

    different sizes is a good idea for the blind and will be cheaper to make then raised markings. and its hardly a problem.



    all fit in my wallet rather nicely

  16. #16
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LoZz View Post
    i doubt a slight change in size is really going to bother ANY of you.
    But how big do the size differences have to be to be recognizable by blind people? I'd imagine quite big.

    different sizes is a good idea for the blind and will be cheaper to make then raised markings. and its hardly a problem.
    On the other hand: raised markings double as a copy protection.

    all fit in my wallet rather nicely
    IIRC British money varies mostly in width, not height.
    It's mostly the height differences that cause problems with the euro bills.



  17. #17
    H_man's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional



    'Ello there. As I recall, Canada has always been a world leader in currency engineering. Brail is ever so simplistic to put on bills. On ours, there are elevated canadian maple leafs on the numbers themselves, in addition to brail.
    Last edited by H_man; May 20, 2008 at 06:20 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by H_man View Post


    'Ello there. As I recall, Canada has always been a world leader in currency engineering. Brail is ever so simplistic to put on bills. On ours, there are elevated canadian maple leafs on the numbers themselves, in addition to brail.
    Good post. This is exactly what I wanted to say. Bills need not have different sizes, rather a simple brail marking will do. Have some rep : )

  19. #19
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    How do they get the brail from not geting pushed in though? Stifer papper or some thing?

  20. #20
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Court Rules Money Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    But how big do the size differences have to be to be recognizable by blind people? I'd imagine quite big.



    .
    see the picture i posted
    it doesnt have to be THAT much difference, you have to remember blind people tend to devlope sensitive touch and after awhile they notice the changes.

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