world modified

**Argantonio** · June 21, 2008, 04:20 PM

You think wolfslayer is right, I think so , but I have two problems, one my english is very bad and second I have not idea of computer science, computation algorithms or shaped 3D.
Indeed, I limit myself to proving, to cutting , to sticking and trying again using a editor Hexadecimal (winhex).
it is difficult to understand what I write in the post, but I assure you that it works, and there are the files that you can download and test.
When I resolved some problems write a tutorial in Castilian (Spanish).

I answer you to the questions:
Yes , but for the present time it must have the same triangles and vertex that the object to substituting.
Yes changed the texture, but it is not important , 'square icebox' are modified the form of the shop of campaign moving the vertex of position, stretching and deforming the triangles up to obtaining a different form.
3D Object Converter 3.60 is a converter of formats 3D. I use it for view the files Milkshape rapidly, it does not serve to edit.
These images explain more the procedure, the first object that has the file world templars_minor_chapter_house , is the right tower.
I extract the information , and pass it to a mesh and to milkshape, edit the tower ( rapid test ); invert the process , milkshape-mesh-world and see the result in the game. Distorted tower.
Attachment 14148 Attachment 14149
Attachment 14150 Attachment 14151

I attach a file milkshape , tower .
Attachment 14152

If someone wants to edit it, without adding vertices, Once edited I place it in templars_minor_chapter_house.
And we see the result

**Argantonio** · June 21, 2008, 05:45 PM

Only moving vertex we obtain different forms,

Attachment 14154
Attachment 14155

if you see the problem now is that the texture does not adapt to the new form, :hmmm: Is necesary a new UV map...
I continue working

**Yelü Dashi** · June 21, 2008, 07:27 PM

Don't worry about uv mapping for time being, how are you cutting out this part of the tower and re-inserting it ? can you extract the whole thing as an ms3d ?
I will edit it and send it back, so it just needs exactly the same number of vertices & triangles ? or could I remove some ?

I have not idea of computer science, computation algorithms or shaped 3D.

Well, you're pretty bloody-minded when it comes to breaking CA's coding so I'd say you're a smart cookie

I can use Milkshape reasonably well so I'm happy to help in anyway can think of.

**Shigawire** · June 21, 2008, 08:54 PM

Incredibly good news! Though I can see that our Spaniard here is still a way off until he's done, this is a very bright light at the end of the tunnel.
For us in EB, one of THE major hurdles for developing Europa Barbarorum 2 for M2TW was that the 3d buildings could not be modded. And an ancient world with medieval buildings is no world at all. Thanks for your work!

I will immediately report this to the guys developing EB2.

**Argantonio** · June 22, 2008, 03:26 AM

Good questions:
Inside the file world the whole settlements this divided in parts , we will call "objects" , from 1 in ne_stakes_a up to 7879 in ne_large_castle .
The first two blocks of the world give this information.
Attachment 14156
Before each one of the objects , The objects are formed by blocks. I them extract one to one,
The reason is that between the blocks, this inserted the serialization and is different of the files mesh. By the momnet objects are extracted one to one, and pass to MS3d

When once edited an object , if you do not move it . When your turn it to placing in his place in the file world, this one preserves his original position
Attachment 14157
Observs the position of the tower in MS3D is the same in the settlement appears, if we move the tower with the milkshape we change his position into the building.
Attachment 14158
Attachment 14159

I tend not to modify the number of vertex and triangles but probably be possible, I am in it.

**Shigawire** · June 22, 2008, 08:17 AM

Man, you must have like a super sharp mind.. How do you even see those items in the hexeditor?

Trial and error?

Well again you are to be commended.

**sinople** · June 22, 2008, 01:07 PM

Stunning ! +rep

**Argantonio** · June 22, 2008, 03:10 PM

Right the triangles, but has more vertexs, for what I had to remove the top part.
Attachment 14178 Attachment 14179
You increased the size of the tower and it turns more big , disproportionate with the building. But it works

**Yelü Dashi** · June 23, 2008, 07:48 AM

thats amazing... i'm glad it worked (in part) . I 'joined' some vertices together (thereby lowering the number of vertices) but didn't add any extra ones, maybe this means less/more vertices is not possible. Hmm,. very interesing.

**Shigawire** · June 23, 2008, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi

thats amazing... i'm glad it worked (in part) . I 'joined' some vertices together (thereby lowering the number of vertices) but didn't add any extra ones, maybe this means less/more vertices is not possible. Hmm,. very interesing.

Hmm. It would be unfortunate if we couldn't have less/more vertices. Depends on how hardcoded the file is I suppose.

I certainly hope that we'll find a way to import/export this. When I get home from work I'm gonna talk to my good old friend Vercingetorix about this. Maybe he is more interested in looking at this now that Argantonio has identified the objects in the hexeditor?

edit:

Originally Posted by Argantonio

Good news,

the procedure works also with block n1 that have information (triangles) of several meshes.
Attachment 14200
Attachment 14201
In the image 2 objects (1 y 3), the 1Object known the right tower (1 mesh) and the 3Object (it has 6 meshes), this means that the information can be extracted , and to transform the complete world in ms3d.

If I have not calculated bad ,this settlement ne_templars_minor_chapter_house.world has 134 Objects (or probably 134 Meshes). I am not very sure...:hmmm:

WOW. Does this mean that we can ADD and SUBTRACT information? Basically, does it mean we can make an importer/exporter?

**Argantonio** · June 23, 2008, 03:44 PM

This accelerates,

A world complet in MS3D, ne_wooden_stakes_a
Attachment 14218
Attachment 14219
One new world ( totally new ) a cross of big proportions, with his MS3D
Attachment 14220
Yelu was nice your model, the procedure admits that alters the vertex, there is no problem !!
Attachment 14221
Only I have limited myself to reducing the size of the tower and fit in his place.
The mapping UV is a problem since I do not identify the block that one entrusts of this.
At this moment I believe that we can place the game any model of any size ( triangles , vertex) , Yesterday I was thinking that it was not possible .

**KnightErrant** · June 23, 2008, 04:02 PM

This may help. From last summer there are two old threads on
settlements. There are 5 blocks of quad bytes after the tris and vert
blocks. The first has an int of 8 in the header, second block has a 9,
third a 3, fourth a 10, and fifth a 4. Here's what we knew:

3 means vertex normals RGB encoded
10 means vertex tangents RGB encoded

just like a mesh file. Caliban told us the 4 means texture coordinates
encoded as high byte/low byte. The 8 means light indices in rgb, ambient
occlusion in .a. The 9 means light attenuation, ambient occlusion in .a.
Later on we got more info and one of these changed to being about
animations. It was the byte quad block that was mostly zeros so that
sort of made sense. The byte blocks have the same number of entries
as the verts which makes sense for normals and tangents and uvs.

For the uvs, if b0, b1, b2, b3 are the bytes you calculate uvs by

Code:

u              = float( b1 ) / 256.0 + float( b0 ) / ( 256.0 * 256.0 )
v              = float( b3 ) / 256.0 + float( b2 ) / ( 256.0 * 256.0 )

Hope that is helpful to your investigations. Good job on all you've done!

**Argantonio** · June 23, 2008, 05:15 PM

Thank you KE I will study held up your advices.
I can ask you a thing : You know that these is obtained really , exchanging two blocks, the Block 1 (triangles) are the same in world and mesh , and the Block 4 of the mesh that I it place instead of the Block 2 one of the world and It works.
I do not modify the rest, and it does not seem to important that the world has 7 before the texture, and the mesh (from 6 to 11), both weight 12 multiplied ones by the number of vertex. ! this it is the trick !. Every block weighs the multiple one ( 4-6-8-12 ) of the number of vertex or Triangles ( only 6 ), it is easy to recognize, which is a block and what is serialization ! this it is the trick !.
It does not seem to you , that if you were modifying your meshconverter , who was reading in the second position the fourth block of the mesh, the tool of conversion mesh-world.
Thank you for the interest. ¿ What is your opinion about that?

**Yelü Dashi** · June 23, 2008, 07:49 AM

Can you send me the whole thing (the whole model of the building) some I can edit it ?

**Argantonio** · June 23, 2008, 10:47 AM

Good news,

the procedure works also with block n1 that have information (triangles) of several meshes.
Attachment 14200
Attachment 14201
In the image 2 objects (1 y 3), the 1Object known the right tower (1 mesh) and the 3Object (it has 6 meshes), this means that the information can be extracted , and to transform the complete world in ms3d.

If I have not calculated bad ,this settlement ne_templars_minor_chapter_house.world has 134 Objects (or probably 134 Meshes). I am not very sure...:hmmm:

**TWoxy** · June 25, 2008, 03:19 PM

Fingers crossed, a solution to one of Europa Barbarorum 2's main problems can be found

. This thread is extremely encouraging in that respect.

**Shigawire** · June 25, 2008, 05:40 PM

My god, were it not for my irrevocably cemented heterosexuality, I could tongue kiss you now Argantonio!

A major milestone has now been reached! Consistent ability to import an arbitrary 3d mesh - irrespective of poly/vertexcount. Now we need to systemize the procedure and streamline it for best possible integration into a production pipeline.

Uhm.. what I mean is that you, Argantonio (and of course KnightErrant) have done something very important. You have proven that you can import a 3d model that isnt already in the game. And that you can do it over and over again no matter what 3d model. Now we need to find a way to make this easier to do - for those of us who aren't Spanish geniuses.

My hat off to all of you who were involved in this.