Hoplites?

**CK23** · May 17, 2008, 06:45 PM

So far playing as the Greeks I have found these places give a new set of Hoplites.

Corinth - Corinthian*
Athens - Athenian*
Sparta - Spartan*
Kydonia & Knossos - Cretan*
Rhodes - Hoplite of Rhodes
Ephesus - Ephesian Hoplites
Byzantium - Byzatine*
Pergamum - Pergamum*
Sicily - Sicilian*
Tarentum - Hoplites of Tarentum
Syracuse - Syracusan*

*Means Hoplite

Please do add, I'm sure there are a couple more heh, I'm trying to compile a list.

**EternalSlayer** · May 17, 2008, 07:08 PM

Sicily - Sicilian
Tarentum - of Tarentum
Syracuse - Syracusan

**CK23** · May 17, 2008, 07:25 PM

Hmm I updated that, I figured that Sicily would...and the 'Cuse...

**Arnspac** · May 17, 2008, 08:07 PM

But you can find all of this in the stickied threads fo RS.

Or you can go to the RS Wiki and check the photo gallery.

**CK23** · May 17, 2008, 08:55 PM

I apologize, I didn't know that. Heh anyway...Is it me or are Hoplites kinda weak?

**Arnspac** · May 17, 2008, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by CK23

I apologize, I didn't know that. Heh anyway...Is it me or are Hoplites kinda weak?

They all have different charge/melee/defense bonuses. How you use them depends on their effectiveness, and their experience. Head to head a Spartan Hoplite 40/72 vs Athenian Hoplite 30/63 should prevail though it would be a slugfest.

**CK23** · May 17, 2008, 09:13 PM

Well I tried a Athenian vs a Legio VII Group and the Romans lost a substantial amount before coming back and being victorious. Spartan vs. Legio VII again they took substantial loses even worse but won. I mean weren't Spartans like the only thing that could beat Romans? Or are Roman just weak in RS?

**zznɟ ǝɥʇ** · May 17, 2008, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by CK23

Well I tried a Athenian vs a Legio VII Group and the Romans lost a substantial amount before coming back and being victorious. Spartan vs. Legio VII again they took substantial loses even worse but won. I mean weren't Spartans like the only thing that could beat Romans? Or are Roman just weak in RS?

This post requires an answer that I'm not entirely qualified to give, and it should be a lengthy answer to boot...I'll try to keep it short and simple, given my limited time.

There were no 'SAS/US SPEC OPS' of the Classical Age. Modern shows paint Spartans/Praetorians/etc as such to attract viewers. True, some soldier's training exceeded others, but that does not make them supermen. I hope Keravnos sees this thread and can add his understanding to the matter as well--he is far better versed in the ways of Sparta than I am.

In history, there is no super-powerful group that annihilates all with their superior strength. The Romans enjoyed the success they did due to a changing fighting style that allowed for more maneuverability than the phalanxes of the Greeks and Carthage. Good luck and timing played a large part in their success as well. Gaul was conquered so quickly and easily thanks to large-scale war among the various factions there. I'm going to give the history a rest now, since I don't seem to be making my point clear, but hopefully I've clarified a few things (as well as muddling other points!

)

In regards to RS: how are you fighting the hoplites? In head-to-head combat, Romans will lose. Especially if you're just using the infantry. It's simple math--long spear vs short sword, long spwear wins. However, get between the hoplites, attack from the sides, and they cannot win. Use auxilia and cavalry in your armies, break up the enemy. Hoplites are easy game for Rome, not because of the power of the average Roman soldier, but because of the power of the overall Roman strategy. Rome was great because of its fighting style, not because its men were "stronger."

**Brusilov** · May 18, 2008, 03:50 AM

I think these are missing;

Cyrene - Cyrenian Hoplites
Paphos / Salamis - Cyprian Hoplites

I don't agree with the statement about the hoplites being week. In my Macedonian armies I use them on the flanks. When a hoplite unit attacks the AI units they make a mess of them. I have armies with each type of available hoplite. They may start out with Spartan / Atheninan (two or four units) but when the army operates further away these are replaced by 'locals'.

If you're going to compare units you need to run the battle at least a dozen or so times. It's all about percentages etc.

It will also depend on how high the units have been upgraded.

**EternalSlayer** · May 19, 2008, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Brusilov

They may start out with Spartan / Atheninan (two or four units) but when the army operates further away these are replaced by 'locals'.

What Hoplites do you use in Gaul? :p

**Keravnos** · May 19, 2008, 07:02 AM

**swhunter** · May 20, 2008, 01:52 AM

**Taelok** · May 18, 2008, 04:12 AM

Tip: Use any of the hoplite units listed in this thread to breach gates in any siege battle. Normally you get a long slug fest happening, but the way in which these guys fight means that the enemy is quickly pushed back from the gates and your troops can enter en masse.

I used Hoplites of Tarentum as Rome and they captured so many settlements for me.

**lolgast** · May 18, 2008, 04:18 AM

You can do that with any unit. Just order them not to fight the soldiers gaurding the gates but order them to run into the city. Your troops wil take a few more casualtys in the beginning but They all run inside the settlement and eventually they win with less casualties than when you order them to attack.

(sorry if my English isn't very good

)

**Taelok** · May 18, 2008, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by lolgast

You can do that with any unit. Just order them not to fight the soldiers gaurding the gates but order them to run into the city. Your troops wil take a few more casualtys in the beginning but They all run inside the settlement and eventually they win with less casualties than when you order them to attack.

(sorry if my English isn't very good

)

My point was that hoplite units, in this case the city hoplites, possess a really powerful 'push' manoeuvre where they just seem to wipe the enemy aside in second, creating huge gaps. They excel at pushing back flanks and entering heavily guarded sieges, in my opinion, and this is where I use them the most.

decimates a macedonian phalanx !

That's another good point. Is it intended that these guys can go head first into a Phalanx unit and ignore their spears? They just go straight past the spears and massacre whoever is standing there. Very fun to watch, but frustrating for the enemy General I'd imagine!

**Snake_Plisskin** · May 18, 2008, 04:35 AM

nice idea Taelok, i haven't used hoplites like that before, i just use them as defensive troops to protect the flank or repel cavalry normally, a very good all round unit in my opinion. As The Fuzz said their only weakness is their lack of flexibility especially when under the ai's command.
Another tip keep guard mod on if your defending a line in formation or defending a narrow street or gateway, but if you flanking an enemy with them take it off as they get right into the thick of the battle that way, decimates a macedonian phalanx !
all the best

**GreatOne** · May 18, 2008, 02:31 PM

The reason why hoplites push so hard, is the spear attribute they have.

Tip (

) Falxmen also have spear attribute, so they push like that too, that's why they look like they're dancing, and hack down your cavalry in seconds(you don't have to have spearmen as dacians or bosphorans

)

**Dark_horse_spirit** · May 18, 2008, 03:15 PM

What made rome so powerful was it's ability to feild a professional army out of goat herders and Tradesmen ec, no other nation was as organised as Rome....this is in a nutshell why Rome grew to the size that it did. The actual fighting abilities were no better than anyone elses..a tough man is a tough man, no matter where he calls home...

DHS

**GreatOne** · May 18, 2008, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dark_horse_spirit

What made rome so powerful was it's ability to feild a professional army out of goat herders and Tradesmen ec, no other nation was as organised as Rome....this is in a nutshell why Rome grew to the size that it did. The actual fighting abilities were no better than anyone elses..a tough man is a tough man, no matter where he calls home...

DHS

And the fact that they didn't fight in Itally, they did, but you can see that whenever they fought in Itally they had heavy loses.The fact is that when you fight outside your regions, you get more money, because it's not your towns sacked and working populace slaguhtered.

This basically alowed Romans to have greater economy and population than their enemies.Which then alowed them to recruit more troops.With training of more troops their adaptability served it's role and produced unit of heavy infantry now known as Legionaire.

Romans also knew what to attack, if they needed grain, they attacked regions which would serve the purpose, if they needed iron, they attacked the iron rich region.This too alowed them to build up their economy.

Even though Romans probbably weren't greatest soldiers of the time, their teamwork, discipline, training and most importantly very good economy alowed them to conquer almost all of the known world at that time.