Spear Militia everywhere...and the Moors!

[Nestor I]

First campaign with this mod (without Byg's Grim) and I am playing with the Moors. 40 turns in the game and I am fielding armies with spear militia. (it seems that Nubian and Berber spearmen got the finger from RR, there's no point in using them with their new stats). I am fighting Portugese, Spanish and Aragonese.
-Spanish armies are full of spear militia
-Portugese armies are full of spear militia
-Aragonese armies are full of spear militia

Is this how it is supposed to be? A slugfest of spear militia? Where's the fun?
___
My second point is about the Moors in general. They lack in infantry, cavalry, ranged infantry and navy :hmmm:. Now what? What's the point of making a faction that is worst in every aspect from their neighbours? And their best ever troops are Christian units? For a muslim faction? Who thought of that?

[Shabby_Ronin]

RR FTW

[MightyMak]

With RR you have to rely on mercenaries in the early game a lot. It's pretty much javelins and spearmen if you don't. Recruit Andalusian Spearmen. They will own the militia. You will be getting better troops soon. The Moors roster is a bit weak anyways. If you don't like the stats on a unit, change them.

[Gorrrrrn]

Nestor

welcome to the forum

Do a search for a thread on Moors unit roster and ideas for improving it. It also contains some historical information on what units the moors actually used. And yes they did employ Christian soldiers and others. (The same as the Sicilians employed Muslim soldiers.)

[Shabby_Ronin]

i like the moors roster...just hate the skins...but most of the vanilla skins suck.

even if the urban militia isnt the AUM's of mtw1, they still kick ass for militia

[Volcan]

The reasons you listed are the reasons why I won't ever use RR. No offense to the mod, i'm sure many like it, but I just don't find it that fun...

If you don't enjoy the... flood of spear milita you should uninstall RR. I believe you will find the game much more enjoyable.

-Edit- Oh, and MightyMak. Your avatar made me laugh. ;p

[Shabby_Ronin]

if you wanna use total combat with raj for 6.1 and not be forced to use RR use lesterthenerd's nice workaround

to get TC + RAJ without RR working with SS 6.1 i did it this way:

1 - install SS 6.0
2 - install SS 6.1 TC 1.0
3 - install TC 1.2
4 - install the TC hotfix which has RAJ in it
5 - place the EDU text file in my sig in the SS data folder

the horse spread animations were disabled in 1.2. if u still have the horse spread animation use the optional file in the front page.
EDU for latest SSTC Hotfix for SS 6.1 without RR. You need RAJ installed from the TC hotfix for this EDU - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RG7VDJXG

remember not to install anything involved with RR if prompted

so far its working like a charm for me

[Point Blank]

First campaign with this mod (without Byg's Grim) and I am playing with the Moors. 40 turns in the game and I am fielding armies with spear militia. (it seems that Nubian and Berber spearmen got the finger from RR, there's no point in using them with their new stats

Hmm, lets examine the relevant stats shall we?

type ME Spear Militia
stat_pri 2, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 60, 1
stat_pri_attr spear, spear_bonus_6
stat_pri_armour 0, 1, 7, flesh
stat_ground 1, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 10, low, trained
stat_cost 1, 160, 125, 75, 60, 165, 4, 70

type Nubian Spearmen
stat_pri 4, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 15, 1
stat_pri_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_4
stat_pri_armour 0, 4, 4, flesh
stat_ground 1, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 14, normal, trained
stat_cost 2, 440, 150, 85, 65, 290, 4, 100

type Berber Spearmen
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy, can_withdraw
stat_pri 3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 30, 1
stat_pri_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_4
stat_pri_armour 0, 3, 5, flesh
stat_ground 1, 2, -2, -2
stat_mental 12, normal, trained
stat_cost 1, 190, 100, 85, 65, 200, 4, 100

Compared to Spear Militia,
Nubian Spearmen: have 2 better attack, use a light spear that is better vs infantry, and have 45 less attack delay. They have a smaller shield but a higher defense, meaning their total defense is the same from the front but much better from the side. They have 4 better morale, and are Late Professional category, meaning are more expensive but replenish very rapidly, and they have only a slightly higher upkeep. They have 'normal' rather than 'low' discipline.

Berber Spearmen: have a better attack (though worse charge bonus), use a light spear that is better vs infantry, and have 30 less attack delay. As with the Nubian Spearmen, their higher defense means total defense is the same from the front and better from the side. Their morale is better, and their upkeep less. They are Local category and readily available. They are 'hardy' with good stamina, also have 'normal' rather than 'low' discipline, and have different stat_ground values so terrain affects them differently.

So much for 'giving them the finger'.

As you can see from the above, there are many 'hidden' stats that can have a significant effect on a unit's capabilities.

[Nestor I]

Dear Point Blank, sometimes too much detail obscures the general vision. I have to say that I don't remember their exact stats before, but my feeling is that they got worse though cheaper. Anyway, you make the point that they are different. Fine. If they were on different factions that would mean something I suppose. As it is now, anything that doesn't have "spear" and "militia" in their name will cream them.

Please, have a look:
type Swordsmen Militia
stat_pri 3, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 45, 1
stat_pri_armour 5, 4, 4, metal
stat_ground 1, -1, 2, 1
stat_mental 6, normal, trained
stat_cost 1, 215, 120, 75, 55, 285, 4, 100

type Lusitanian Javelinmen
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, start_not_skirmishing
stat_pri 8, 2, javelin, 55, 4, thrown, missile_mechanical, piercing, spear, 0, 1
stat_pri_attr ap, thrown
stat_sec 3, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 15, 1
stat_pri_armour 0, 5, 3, flesh
stat_ground 1, 0, 2, 0
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained

Actually I did some custom battles with Spear Militia against Berber Spearmen and Nubian Spearmen. Spear Militia had 1 experience, as they do get this from the same tier barracks as the others are recruited. I managed to win 5 out of 10 battles against the Berbers and 8 out of 10 against the Nubians.

As you see the differences are negligible.

Only thing I noticed is that in my files the stats are a bit different:
type Spear Militia
stat_pri 3, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 60, 1
stat_ground 1, -1, 2, 1
stat_mental 3, low, trained

type Berber Spearmen
stat_pri 3, 1, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 30, 1
stat_ground 1, 2, -2, -2
stat_mental 5, normal, trained

type Nubian Spearmen
stat_pri 4, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 15, 1
stat_ground 1, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 7, normal, trained

Let's give these pour guys some decent stats, they were the backbone of the Moors army. And I say that we should get rid of the Spear Militia alltogether. They don't give anything important and any faction that was using some light untrained spearmen, probably has them in the game already.

PS: Thanks to anyone that bothered to give me an explanation or advice (or rep, didn't expect that ) I'll try some things and see how it goes.