An example of how Generals Bodyguard are insane.

[war927]

So I was charging 2 units of knights of Montessa at a Moorish General's Bodyguard with only 5 horses remaining (note the the actual general had already died to a flaming boulder to the face). Each of my units of Knights of Montessa had an armor of 18 and an attack of 5, and had at least 80 men. My knights charge the bodyguard at the same time it charges the knights, and I kid you not, 5 bodyguard killed 60 Knights in a single charge. The actual time frame of this event unfolding before my eyes had to be less than 5 seconds or so.

I've also noticed that the Generals of Islamic factions have a significant charge, attack, and defence advantage over most other factions in SS. Why is this? While a general in the hands of the A.I. usually does go down in most battles out of stupidity, it's relatively ridiculous that there is almost a 12:1 advantage of Generals over infantry in SS. From what I can tell, SS seems to be a mod that mixes Realism with a balance of gameplay to keep it fun. But there isn't anything real or fun about a Bodyguard unit being such a devastating force. It may make you feel good when you are the one using a Bodyguard to kill off the A.I., but the reverse is quite dissatisfying.

I think if players would adopt less of a "generals must kill everything" attitude, bodyguards could be properly balanced and people would learn to bring an army into a battle instead of 5 generals and a few infantry.

Lastly, I know I could modify Bodyguard units attack and defense fields myself (and I already know how to do this) but I get the feeling that balancing bodyguards is more than just those things. It would probably be some sort of mix between modifying charge bonuses, attack, defense, mass, attack speed, unit behavior in melee, and probably a few others, which I'm not equipped to tackle myself.

/End Rant

[snuggans]

5 of them killed 60 in less than 5 seconds? wow
and i thought the grandest BS was when 5 feudal knights took out 20 dismounted knights easily. (the infantry kinda have a tendency to throw themselves on the floor and feign death when they are in a 3 feet proximity to the 1.2 mph charge)

[spanish_emperor]

yeah i know this....2 general untis killed 4 spear units and 2 archer units of mine and i only killed 15

My spearmen would start fleeing when one charge of bodyguards hits my men...then i thought oh well, i have 3 more so i attacked and stopped one and i killed 8 and he had killed 2 units of spearmen...it was intense and i thought i would win just with my other spearmen unit and archer unit attacking from behind and then came the charge of the other bodyguard and routed all my men

[Gorrrrrn]

Oh I thought the thread was about GB doing insane things - like a open field battle I had yesterday. Set up a defensive position in a village, had some longbowmen with stakes off to one side. They fired and did their usual damage but when they had used up their arrows I moved them inside the defensive ring in the village itself. Leaving their stakes all on their own with no-one around them.

So the French GB having attacked some defending infantry and finding heavy billmen not to their liking rode off and then rode straight into the stakes. End of GB.

Anyway a lot depends on the infantry - armour upgraded english levy spears in spear wall can stop a GB in their tracks. They'll take casualties but they often get the job done.

mounted cavalry melee can be strange though - I've lost entire units of mailed knights to attack from Irish and Arab light cavalry. (that's if I counter-charge or just rely on defensive posture.) Basically mailed knights only work against infantry that is already engaged or knackered. Which has a degree of realism about it.

[TemplarLord]

There is only one logical explanation, general bodyguards are M-1 tanks

[shenk]

So I was charging 2 units of knights of Montessa at a Moorish General's Bodyguard with only 5 horses remaining (note the the actual general had already died to a flaming boulder to the face). Each of my units of Knights of Montessa had an armor of 18 and an attack of 5, and had at least 80 men. My knights charge the bodyguard at the same time it charges the knights, and I kid you not, 5 bodyguard killed 60 Knights in a single charge. The actual time frame of this event unfolding before my eyes had to be less than 5 seconds or so.

I've also noticed that the Generals of Islamic factions have a significant charge, attack, and defence advantage over most other factions in SS. Why is this? While a general in the hands of the A.I. usually does go down in most battles out of stupidity, it's relatively ridiculous that there is almost a 12:1 advantage of Generals over infantry in SS. From what I can tell, SS seems to be a mod that mixes Realism with a balance of gameplay to keep it fun. But there isn't anything real or fun about a Bodyguard unit being such a devastating force. It may make you feel good when you are the one using a Bodyguard to kill off the A.I., but the reverse is quite dissatisfying.

I think if players would adopt less of a "generals must kill everything" attitude, bodyguards could be properly balanced and people would learn to bring an army into a battle instead of 5 generals and a few infantry.

Lastly, I know I could modify Bodyguard units attack and defense fields myself (and I already know how to do this) but I get the feeling that balancing bodyguards is more than just those things. It would probably be some sort of mix between modifying charge bonuses, attack, defense, mass, attack speed, unit behavior in melee, and probably a few others, which I'm not equipped to tackle myself.

/End Rant

I had that problem until yesterday when I messed with the islamic early bodyguard stats, as of now they are just equally matched to the other bodyguards... no more overpowered units

[war927]

I just don't get why a Bodyguard charge can take down more men than a direct hit from a trebuchet.

[random_samurai]

The problem i find myself having is that the AI GB kicks mega ass until they all inevitably die (along with a good portion of my two spear units), but my GB might as well kiss their sweet knickers goodbye if they run into 1 spear militia...

[dstarsboy]

I find this strange, my generals die all of the time in combat, even during/after a charge against heavy inf (non spears)

[Aldwen]

Weird, I don't have this problem. Curious though are you guys using that Real Combat mod?

I know I am and I have to be smart about how I use my BE. They die just as easily as any other cavalry. Charge them into anything overwhelming and you can kiss them goodbye...

[Banzai!]

My unit of general's bodyguard + my king got killed by a single unit of Baltic spearmen (I wasn't paying attention and left them in there).

The Lithuanian AI bodyguard on the other hand (in another battle) chewed through 80% of my unit of general's bodyguards, and two units of crusader knights before eventually dying.

I think the armoured horse general's bodyguards are overpowered.

[Snesopp]

Here's what I've done.

1 hitpoint, not 2.
Halfed the amount of troops in the bodyguard.
Litte more armor, attack and charge. So they still can make a diffrence when needed.

If only the battle AI didn't charge the bodyguard in to action first.

[MightyMak]

In a recent skirmish with the Byzantines, I had two units of Hospitaller Knights charge a stationary Bodyguard unit of 12 men (no experience) from both sides. Within 15 seconds the bodyguards had killed half of the Hospitallers with a loss of only 4 men. I retreated and the remaining 8 bodyguards then proceeded to charge a unit of Pavise Spearmen (two silver chevrons and heavy mail) head on. My Pavises went from 75 down to 40 before the bodyguard unit retreated with 5 men left. Insane is an understatement.

[Serious J]

I find them to be pretty balanced overall. If you look at some other mods you'll see really overpowered Bodyguard units. (I'm looking at you BC!) My only real complaint is that AI controlled Generals/Kings etc... seem to always be the last one alive in the unit. Whereas for my Generals, they're usually dead with 5+ Bodyguards still alive.

[jo_dus]

BG seem fine to me. I've never had my or AI's BG's decimate an entire army. Spears kill GB's just fine whether they are controlled by me or the comp.

[tup]

Then go against the Mongols and try to get down a general of them.
One of those killed 4 units of those strong Khwarezmian spearmen once. Today I had a battle where I killed like 50% of the enemy army while losing 10%, that guy was actually talking about winning. Well, that Subotai or what his name was sure had his own ideas. Killed 10 or more units of Turkomans, my own BG and 3-4 Khwarezmian mercenaries. Not full units, but still several hundred.

[Shabby_Ronin]

anything the ai can throw at me to make me nervous i'll take, if its true that aI gb are bad men

[Iscariott]

My general + 22 bodyguards got side charged by SCOUTS. Dead general 4 remaining bodyguards run.

[Point Blank]

There is a dramatic difference between 1HP and 2HP generals.

[nickname]

Same Problem. I played as Scottland and made my way throug Ireland.
On my side a full stack with 1 familymember, 6 of this first bowman (no pessants) 6 higlander 4 higland nobles and the rest where light cavalry.
The Enemy: 4 Armis with 5 General Bodyguards, some militia peasants and some other light units. 7:1 for me.
I lost because there was no way to kill these Bodyguards. All of these Units where arround 20 man, while my general just had 14.
I mean, my entire army was fighting one unit of Bodyguards and they died like flys while no one of these medievaltanks was destroyed.

(And when they are tanks they are Leopard II . It is counted as the best tank worldwide.)