The ULTIMATE NERD QUESTION!

[RZZZA]

doesnt all this stuff have to be approved by lucas himself? so its all canon

[conon394]

Farnan

Nope, there was only one LOTR author and dozens of Star Wars authors so there is no fight on which author's work is canon and which force user is stronger. We all know evil went Morgoth>Sauron>Gothmog>Glaurung>Ancalagon>Sauramon>non-magical evils.

I’m not sure you can draw such a clear line for JRR. I mean Sauron is really a bit of a poser – he got beat with regularity and neither dragons nor balrogs seem to answer his beck and call. I’m mean I can just imagine the Balrog in Moria “Lord of the World, please don’t make laugh, I don’t recall seeing you when my mates and I drove Ungoliant off, and who got his butt kicked by a girl and her dog?”

[Farnan]

I’m not sure you can draw such a clear line for JRR. I mean Sauron is really a bit of a poser – he got beat with regularity and neither dragons nor balrogs seem to answer his beck and call. I’m mean I can just imagine the Balrog in Moria “Lord of the World, please don’t make laugh, I don’t recall seeing you when my mates and I drove Ungoliant off, and who got his butt kicked by a girl and her dog?”

But Sauron also destroyed Numeorian, and Werewolves and Vampires beckoned to his call. He was Morgoth's right hand mand, though Gothmog was his Commander-in-Chief. Sauron was more the sneaky kind of evil, tricking the good guys and acting as a spy. Balrogs were more the overt evil and weren't as dangerous. A Balrog couldn't have rebuilt Angband, but Sauron did at a time (though it was destroyed at the end of the First Age). Sauron built the armies of Morgoth, defeated Finrod in combat, and captured Tol Siron. He was beat by Huan, who wasn't some ordinary wolf, but a being of Amam.

[Iustinianos]

I completely agree with Farnan. Sauron was one of the mightiest of the Maiar, maybe even the mightiest. He was mightier then any Balrog and even Gothmog. Sauron was more dangerous then any of Melkor's servants. Lets not forget what happened after the destruction of Beleriand eh?, he was responsable for the destruction of Numenor and every war after that until the destruction of the Ring and thus himself.

Talking about LOTR again brings back memories...

[sabaku_no_gaara]

From what I saw of the lord of the ring movies, anny half decent General in history could have defeated the forces of Sauron and Saruman.

But nothing alive at the moment can pose a threat to the empire with it's death star

and that ring? Please an invisibillity ring that turns you into a whining sissy who can only stare in the distance with an open mouth all the time... If that is the ultimate weapon then any guy with a machine gun can take on all of middle earth, but I don't see a guy with a machine gun fighting a bunch of storm troopers.

The star wars movies (the first 3) where good the whole time you where watching, The lord of the rings movies where good only when you fast forwarded all the frodo and sam parts

[Iustinianos]

From what I saw of the lord of the ring movies, anny half decent General in history could have defeated the forces of Sauron and Saruman.

I think you can't really compare that with eachother. The armies of Evil from Tolkien's world where quite different then any army the real world has ever seen. Imagine fighting hordes, hordes and I mean hordes of devils such as the Orcs and the Uruk-Hai. Elephants ten times as big as the real ones supported by wolves ten times as big as the real ones. That's not all. Imagine you fellow soldiers being picked out of their formation by fliying dragons commanded by ghosts that spread utter fear among any in their sight. Fear is the key to Sauron's succes. You can't compare that with any historical army whatsoever.

Did I sound like a nerd?

[Garnier]

From what I saw of the lord of the ring movies, anny half decent General in history could have defeated the forces of Sauron and Saruman.

But nothing alive at the moment can pose a threat to the empire with it's death star

and that ring? Please an invisibillity ring that turns you into a whining sissy who can only stare in the distance with an open mouth all the time... If that is the ultimate weapon then any guy with a machine gun can take on all of middle earth, but I don't see a guy with a machine gun fighting a bunch of storm troopers.

That's like saying Call of Duty 4 is better than Mount & Blade because one guy from CoD 4 could kill an army from M&B.

[Scipio Afracanis]

I think the thread is abit unbalanced.

It should be Star Wars vs Star Trek

LOTR vs D and D?

I mean pitting SW vs LOTR is so...... and Frodo vs Luke...............Leia vs Elvish aerosmiths daughter,Chewy vs Gimly,Han vs Aragorn/Legolas,Obi Wan vs Gandolf,Saruman vs Vader,
Paps vs Sauron,Billy D vs Golum?
To many good actors............... head going to explode.......EWOKS!



Ummmmmmm

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

.......EWOKS!

[Farnan]

The real question is:



Count Dooku

Vs.



Saruman

[Scipio Afracanis]

One in the same,did not know that.

[gambit]

@Farnan

Good comparison, but I'm gonna go with Dooku. He's just force pull the staff out of sarumans hands and he'd be a worthless old man, unless they can still cast spells without their staves. Plus Dooku has a more menacing pose/face.

[conon394]

But Sauron also destroyed Numeorian, and Werewolves and Vampires beckoned to his call. He was Morgoth's right hand mand, though Gothmog was his Commander-in-Chief. Sauron was more the sneaky kind of evil, tricking the good guys and acting as a spy. Balrogs were more the overt evil and weren't as dangerous. A Balrog couldn't have rebuilt Angband, but Sauron did at a time (though it was destroyed at the end of the First Age). Sauron built the armies of Morgoth, defeated Finrod in combat, and captured Tol Siron. He was beat by Huan, who wasn't some ordinary wolf, but a being of Amam.

Oh I don’t disagree that he was clever and certainly sneaky.

But mano-a-mano he was no great shakes: Yes he beat Finrod Felagund, but that was a battle of ’magic’ only (and Finrod was already captive, and in terms of ‘magic’ the house of Feanor seems to have been the more learned and likely to knock of nifty stuff rings, orbs etc… even Galadrial who comes across as powerful ‘magically’ notably spent a lot of time with both the smiths of Ergrion and with Melian) I’m thinking Sauron would not have lasted one round with Fimgolfin or Feanor with a sword. I mean come on he get completely spanked by the Last Alliance, and defeated by just Elendil and Gil-galad (and that’s with the ring) his armies regularly folded when faced with the might of Numenor and it seems to me he was only lucky to in the Second age to catch the Elves off guard.

In terms of the Armies of Morgoth, Sauron does not seem to have been any more prominent than Gothmog or Glaurung, all 3 seem to have lead armies and or acted with a fair amount of self direction at time(s).

But ultimately I think Sauron’s real status of hack is in the very destruction of Numenor. Aside from the fact that that destruction very nearly destroyed him it’s the fact he dropped the ball really. If he had not been so wrapped in looking for revenge the fool would have noticed that he had ensconced himself at the head of a state that made his best efforts run screaming into the hills like little girls. He should have quietly off-ed Ar-Pharazôn and simply ruled trough even more weak-willed proxies, perpetually - Cetainly Numenor sounds like it had better amentias than Mordor.

[Farnan]

You say him being defeated by Gil-Galad and Elrond like it was a bad thing. Gil-Galad was the High King of the Noldor, decended from Finrod and one of the most powerful figures on Middle Earth. Elrond was the son of Earendil, the greatest of the Mariners and the man who defeated the Lord of the Dragons. He was decended from Maiar.

On a slight off-topic, a M2TW mod for the First Age would be awesome...

[Count Froody]

I find it odd that someone who is intelligent enough to know who he can take on directly and who not is considered such a loser here... after all, Sidious completely crushed the Old Republic and the whole Jedi Order just by using his brains... not an acomplishment to be snuffed at, don't you agree?

Same with Sauron, he destroyed two of the Second Ages greatest kingdoms by deceiving them... I think that shows a lot of competence in the art of villainy.

Of course, in both cases, they were only weaker versions of villains that preceded them ages ago, but none of these villains accomplished much more, regardless of their superior strength.

In the case of Star Wars, I think the extended universe is absurdly exaggerating anyway, for example in the case of Nihilus.

[Farnan]

Well Morgoth accomplished more than Sauron. If it wasn't for Earendel he would have complete control of Middle Earth and have destroyed the Noldor Lords who were more powerful than a dozen Aragorns.

[Count Froody]

He WOULD, yes... if it wasn't for Frodo, Sauron would have had a pretty good shot at conquering Middle-Earth as well. In the end, both failed.

[conon394]

if it wasn't for Frodo

Well really Sam and Gollum (and by implication Bilbo) Frodo blew it at the end…

[gambit]

Well really Sam and Gollum (and by implication Bilbo) Frodo blew it at the end…

True but Frodo had to carry it all the way. You think Sam would have had the willpower to resist it? He's a gardner who couldn't dance with a girl until the last movie.

[Count Froody]

True, but that only shows how hard to break the power of the Ring is... Gollum didn't destroy it intentionally, after all.