Where's the argument in the "If a tree falls in the woods..." question?

[D.B. Cooper]

You know, "If a tree falls in the middle of some deep woods with nobody around to hear it, does it make any noise?" Why is there even an argument? If I cut down the tree in my backyard, it would make noise when it fell to the ground.

The same thing would happen, except farther away from me. It's still a tree, it's still falling, and it will still make noise.

Am I missing something?

Edit: I mean, it's like saying: If everyone is asleep when the sun rises, does it still rise?

[Gary88]

no its not quite the same. for a start there is an argument that sound is vibrations in the air that our brains interpret as sound. if there is no living thing with the sense of sound is it not just vibrating air or is it still noise?

the bit which is more like the sun question you asked is philisophical, do things which you personally do not experience happen? when you are playing a computer game is everything off screen actually occuring?

[Tiberius Nero]

Yes, this is a philosophical question, not a scientific one; the question essentially is if there is a reality outside one's perception and intellect or whether everything one experiences is ultimately the product of one's mind.

[Magic Man]

Its saying if theres nothing to hear the sound, does the sound exist??

Sound is a sense, with noone sensing it; is it there?

Etc etc.

[LSJ]

A similar question is, if I fart in space, do I make a smell?

Smell is just when particles are absorbed and interpreted by the sensory cells in the nose. If there is no one to interpret the particles, they are simply particles, are they not?

[Banned]

You know, "If a tree falls in the middle of some deep woods with nobody around to hear it, does it make any noise?" Why is there even an argument? If I cut down the tree in my backyard, it would make noise when it fell to the ground.

The same thing would happen, except farther away from me. It's still a tree, it's still falling, and it will still make noise.

Am I missing something?

Edit: I mean, it's like saying: If everyone is asleep when the sun rises, does it still rise?

To broaden the context, you could perhaps ask, "If a tree falls in the middle of some deep woods with nobody around to hear it, does it make any noise for you or someone else?" The answer to this question is certainly 'no' and there should be no argumentation over it, and if you ask the question with no such reference, even then basically, most of the times, there shouldn't be any argument against it. But, let's consider a planet where there's nothing but vacuum, no gas, only free space. Does a falling tree make noise in such a condition? No, it doesn't. Therefore, what I feel is that it solely depends on the framework whether the tree makes noise or not. You could be talking about a tree isolated by man from the atmosphere of earth, who knows?

[Chaigidel]

the thing is sound is a human perception of vibration in the liquid.

hence there is no sound if no one hears. it vibrates the air obviously but it does not count as a sound unless it is heard.

[Simetrical]

I don't like that line of argument much. Sound waves will exist, so it's logical to say that sound will be present. Sound is a physical phenomenon, not just a perceptual one. You can say that nothing will be heard; that's a perceptual statement.

[Chaigidel]

but without us to name it sound, sound is not; the force still exists just without a name. it requires a namer to be given form, in perception.

[Simetrical]

We can name things we can't directly observe. By your logic it would be incorrect to call it a "force" too, or anything else. (Not that sound is a force.)

[Chaigidel]

true, but that is the question asked in the thing; its about perception and meaning rather than whether or not it actually exerts force.

I agree it seems ridiculous if you think the force is not occuring just because an observer is not present, so it must be a question of meaning rather than physicality.