Tested: SS6.0 + LTC Campaign AI

[Plautus]

Hey Folks,

as you have maybe noticed im a bit upset with the current Campaign aI regarding Diplomacy. The Battle AI and the Campaign AI is just supreme but the diplomacy, well sucks a bit.

In my eyes the current diplomacy takes the live out of the mod so i decided to test my SS6.0 Installation with Lusteds campaign AI.

To make it short: the outcome is horrible. The results are as follows:

Diplomacy: slightly better (but really slightly...) no real blocs have been build in 80 turns. In Fact some actions of Lusteds AI were so illogical. Example: Turn 22 : HRE becomes Ally of Genoa. Turn 23 HRE declares war on France...now i hoped that Genoa would declare war on france itself because Genoa is allied with HRE. But NOOOO France declares war on Genoa. Due to the fact both Genoa and HRE are really strong france is nearly destoryed in turn 80.

Campaign AI: Here comes the horrible thing. Compared to vanilla the LTC AI might be good but compared to the ss6.0 AI its just weak. In the SS6.0 campaign AI full stacks are mostly if not always attacking reasonable. I played with the LTC AI as Englang. Scottland send a half Stack to this rebel fortress in the north west of london and then made chill for some turns there. I took that fortress and the scots still makes barbecues there, without doing . In turn 30 two another half stacks of chilling scots were building forts at the border. These 3 scots armys doing nothing untill turn 55 (round about 50 turns later). Then i decided to test the AI and atta cked with half stack of weak spearmen and peasentarcher from york. I layed siege to one of there forts. Now you think what happens? Well...nothing . The scottish army at my fortress which is defended by one unit of spearmen seems to be to drunken to attack and stayed chilling. Same with the other army in the first fort and same with the other army in the fort im besieging. I waited 4 turns then i closed the game made a rollback with the standard ss6.0 AI files and that it was.

While there is more (not always reasonable) diplomacy activity in LTC Campaign AI the Campaign AI in general is not that good.

I say stay with the current SS Campaign AI (isnt Lusted involved in it as well). Im thinking on trying to test UAI with SS6.0 or to edit the AI Labels in LTC correct, but i dont think that this could have an effect on how the scots (as an example) use there army. I dont think it makes a difference if im labeling the scots as catholic,standard or whatsoever...if they dont defend,attack,move. So i think i will give UAI a chance, but maybe Lusted will improve his current AI?

[Lusted]

The current SS AI is the LTC AI with a few changes to diplomacy, defence code, some extra code relating to religion and human added in, and some tweaks to the invade code from what I've seen of the file. Most of it however is unchanged. If you want to try, try the new WIP AI i've posted in the Sub Mod formu.

[Plautus]

and this few changes making such difference? wow...

Well i will definitly give it a try.Thx, you are the man

[Lusted]

Well my Ai could definitely use some changes, there will probably be an update to the WIP version fairly soon as I've just gone over the defense code and changed some things. It is fascinating looking at my code after several months away and wodnering why I did certain things.

[Plautus]

Well my Ai could definitely use some changes, there will probably be an update to the WIP version fairly soon as I've just gone over the defense code and changed some things. It is fascinating looking at my code after several months away and wodnering why I did certain things.

hehe i know this effect, i have timelimes for looking into sourcecodes for different projects, and im often wondering

[Quark]

Plautus
From my reading of Ai threads and tweaking its is fair to say that the Ai is very 'finiky' and that a small change of invade priorities from say 800 (do nothing), to 820 (agressive attack) can have a dramatic effect. Its like having a very powerful complicated engine, and 5 switches on top to fine tune it. Like any vehicle though the road conditions effect it (map) so as the map in 6.1 is different from 5.1, you get a different results.

In beta testing we had very little time to develop the Ai from Lusteds original but as you have noted some improvements were made. However as also stated Lusted is the expert on this, and even he is unsure of some of his reasoning, so while an overhaul was needed, its a bit unfair to say horrible, as its a very tricky process which only a few people have truely got to grips with.

If you are going to blame any one, I would choose CA for not giving us more parameters to play with (although Lusted may disagree with that ). Anyway off to download new version, and hopefully find some time to view and test.

[Plautus]

Hey Quark thank you for your comment. I havent blamed anyone and it seems even Lusted doesent feel blamed...pls try not to feel blamed/insulted. It must be possible to say something bad about a mod without comments like yours . Even if im going to exaggerate things up, sorry for that .But AI Armys doing nothing is horrible for me!!!

Im well aware of any mods contribution and i would go so far and say that it is very likely that, without Lusteds contributions, i wouldnt have stayed playing mtw2.

Its just that i dont think that Lusted really need praying or singing before someone can make a critical post. He has enough integrity i think.

And please read my posts carefully m8. I compared Lusteds to vanillas AI and said its good i only have mentioned the difference from LTC to SS6.0 AI.

And im also eager to try his new AI code.

[Quark]

Plautus
I do not mind people saying for example, its cr**, if it is cr**, thats fine, but was merely highlighting that it has more to do with the map changes than the Ai getting worse, as it worked fine enough in 5.1. Hence the 'bit unfair' as opposed to 'oh my god are you wrong' , sorry for the confusion.