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  1. #1
    Tajir's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default The Garbage of Israel

    Johann Hari: Israel is suppressing a secret it must face
    (Belfast Telegraph)


    How did a Jewish state founded 60 years ago end up throwing filth at cowering Palestinians?
    Thursday, May 01, 2008

    When you hit your 60th birthday, most of you will guzzle down your hormone replacement therapy with a glass of champagne and wonder if you have become everything you dreamed of in your youth. In a few weeks, the state of Israel is going to have that hangover.

    She will look in the mirror and think – I have a sore back, rickety knees and a gun at my waist, but I'm still standing. Yet somewhere, she will know she is suppressing an old secret she has to face. I would love to be able to crash the birthday party with words of reassurance. Israel has given us great novelists like Amos Oz and A.B. Yehoshua, great film-makers like Joseph Cedar, great scientific research into Alzheimer's, and great dissident journalists like Amira Hass, Tom Segev and Gideon Levy to expose her own crimes.


    She has provided the one lonely spot in the Middle East where gay people are not hounded and hanged, and where women can approach equality.


    But I can't do it. Whenever I try to mouth these words, a remembered smell fills my nostrils. It is the smell of feces. Across the occupied West Bank, raw untreated sewage is pumped every day out of the Jewish settlements, along large metal pipes, straight onto Palestinian land. From there, it can enter the groundwater and the reservoirs, and become a poison.


    Standing near one of these long, stinking brown-and-yellow rivers of waste recently, the local chief medical officer, Dr Bassam Said Nadi, explained to me: "Recently there were very heavy rains, and the feces started to flow into the reservoir that provides water for this whole area. I knew that if we didn't act, people would die. We had to alert everyone not to drink the water for over a week, and distribute bottles. We were lucky it was spotted. Next time..." He shook his head in fear. This is no freak: a 2004 report by Friends of the Earth found that only six per cent of Israeli settlements adequately treat their sewage.


    Meanwhile, in order to punish the population of Gaza for voting "the wrong way", the Israeli army are not allowing past the checkpoints any replacements for the pipes and cement needed to keep the sewage system working. The result? Vast stagnant pools of waste are being held within fragile dykes across the strip, and rotting. Last March, one of them burst, drowning a nine-month-old baby and his elderly grandmother in a tsunami of human waste. The Centre on Housing Rights warns that one heavy rainfall could send 1.5m cubic metres of faeces flowing all over Gaza, causing "a humanitarian and environmental disaster of epic proportions".


    So how did it come to this? How did a Jewish state founded 60 years ago with a promise to be "a light unto the nations" end up flinging its filth at a cowering Palestinian population?


    The beginnings of an answer lie in the secret Israel has known, and suppressed, all these years. Even now, can we describe what happened 60 years ago honestly and unhysterically? The Jews who arrived in Palestine throughout the twentieth century did not come because they were cruel people who wanted to snuffle out Arabs to persecute. No: they came because they were running for their lives from a genocidal European anti-Semitism that was soon to slaughter six million of their sisters and their sons.


    They convinced themselves that Palestine was "a land without people for a people without land". I desperately wish this dream had been true. You can see traces of what might have been in Tel Aviv, a city that really was built on empty sand dunes. But most of Palestine was not empty. It was already inhabited by people who loved the land, and saw it as theirs. They were completely innocent of the long, hellish crimes against the Jews.


    When it became clear these Palestinians would not welcome becoming a minority in somebody else's country, darker plans were drawn up. Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, wrote in 1937: "The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war."


    So, for when the moment arrived, he helped draw up Plan Dalit. It was – as Israeli historian Ilan Pappe puts it – "a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; and laying siege to and bombarding population centres". In 1948, before the Arab armies invaded, this began to be implemented: some 800,000 people were ethnically cleansed, and Israel was built on the ruins. The people who ask angrily why the Palestinians keep longing for their old land should imagine an English version of this story. How would we react if the 30m stateless, persecuted Kurds in the world sent armies and settlers into this country to seize everything in England below Leeds, and swiftly established a free Kurdistan from which we were expelled? Wouldn't we long forever for our children to return to Cornwall and Devon and London? Would it take us only 40 years to compromise and offer to settle for just 22 per cent of what we had?


    If we are not going to be endlessly banging our heads against history, the Middle East needs to excavate 1948, and seek a solution. Any peace deal – even one where Israel dismantled the wall and agreed to return to the 1967 borders – tends to crumple on this issue. The Israelis say: if we let all three million come back, we will be outnumbered by Palestinians even within the 1967 borders, so Israel would be voted out of existence. But the Palestinians reply: if we don't have an acknowledgement of the Naqba (catastrophe), and our right under international law to the land our grandfathers fled, how can we move on?


    It seemed like an intractable problem – until, two years ago, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research conducted the first study of the Palestinian Diaspora's desires. They found that only 10 per cent – around 300,000 people – want to return to Israel proper. Israel can accept that many (and compensate the rest) without even enduring much pain. But there has always been a strain of Israeli society that preferred violently setting its own borders, on its own terms, to talk and compromise. This weekend, the elected Hamas government offered a six-month truce that could have led to talks. The Israeli government responded within hours by blowing up a senior Hamas leader and killing a 14-year-old girl.


    Perhaps Hamas' proposals are a con; perhaps all the Arab states are lying too when they offer Israel full recognition in exchange for a roll-back to the 1967 borders; but isn't it a good idea to find out? Israel, as she gazes at her grey hairs and discreetly ignores the smell of her own stale feces pumped across Palestine, needs to ask what kind of country she wants to be in the next 60 years.


  2. #2
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    I don't trust the arab states.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    It's their battle let them fight it out. I think it would be better if the international community closed their eyes for a year and then looked at who is left...

  4. #4
    Tajir's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_Since_1985 View Post
    It's their battle let them fight it out. I think it would be better if the international community closed their eyes for a year and then looked at who is left...
    Same here. Let the Arabs and Jews duke it out. But lets make sure we cut all aid to Israel, then we can truly enjoy the fireworks.


  5. #5

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahir View Post
    Same here. Let the Arabs and Jews duke it out. But lets make sure we cut all aid to Israel, then we can truly enjoy the fireworks.
    So it begins

  6. #6
    LSJ's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    I don't trust Israel.

    But I don't trust any government founded on a religious or cultural basis.
    That includes theocratic states, semi-theocratic states, Kurdistan, Pakistan, ecetera.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Perhaps Hamas' proposals are a con; perhaps all the Arab states are lying too when they offer Israel full recognition in exchange for a roll-back to the 1967 borders; but isn't it a good idea to find out?
    Israel could afford to take that risk with other states because it can defend itself from them and international support would side with them if they were attacked but cannot take that risk with Hamas. Hamas has provided absolutely nothing to indicate they can be trusted, why would any sane state make it easier for terrorist to strike at its citizens? No sorry recognition must come first since Israel was the target of attacks that lead to the current borders.

    Same here. Let the Arabs and Jews duke it out. But lets make sure we cut all aid to Israel, then we can truly enjoy the fireworks.
    Considering Israel's home grown military complex I dont think you'd like those odds.

  8. #8
    Tajir's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Considering Israel's home grown military complex I dont think you'd like those odds.
    Considering all the aid it took to build and maintain it, I think the odds are stacked against the Israelis. Stay within the ToS or else. Dromikaites

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873594.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/wo.../17israel.html

    The sooner the Arabs finish off Israel, the sooner our fuel prices and reputation recovers.
    Last edited by Dromikaites; May 06, 2008 at 04:55 PM.


  9. #9
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahir View Post
    Considering all the aid it took to build and maintain it, I think the odds are stacked against god's chosen ticks.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873594.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/wo.../17israel.html

    The sooner the Arabs finish off Israel, the sooner our fuel prices and reputation recovers.
    SOMEBODY's angry.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahir View Post
    Considering all the aid it took to build and maintain it, I think the odds are stacked against god's chosen ticks.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873594.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/wo.../17israel.html

    The sooner the Arabs finish off Israel, the sooner our fuel prices and reputation recovers.
    Well ok then you arent interested in peace by this comment you just want Israel gone/defeated. Gee first anger at white people in other thread now jews, who is next asians?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahir View Post
    Considering all the aid it took to build and maintain it, I think the odds are stacked against the Israelis. Stay within the ToS or else. Dromikaites
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/873594.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/wo.../17israel.html
    The sooner the Arabs finish off Israel, the sooner our fuel prices and reputation recovers.
    Dromikaites;
    Why was this censored, that is exactly who the Jews think they are, they make no attempt to hide it. Secondly since when did we censor things when people insult other nations and religions on these forums?

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    another israel/palestine thread....grooooan

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    another israel/palestine thread....grooooan

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    you start threads off on the wrong foot by calling the west "white devils", now you start this thread off on the wrong foot by calling israelis "god's chosen ticks".

    and then you wonder why people wont stick to the topic, why they cant stop berating you

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Did you steal Captain Arrrgh's topic title?
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


    In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.

  16. #16
    Captain Arrrgh!'s Avatar I'z in yer grass
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Surgeon View Post
    Did you steal Captain Arrrgh's topic title?
    That's what I thought. But my topic was much more benign, involving cuddly, hairy mobsters and garbage contracts in Italy.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Let the Theocracies kill themselves, their gods will bring them victory
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

  18. #18
    Georgy Zhukov's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Besides, if you cut military aid what do you think its gonna do? Do you think the IDF will roll over dead? No they'll go back to what they used to do, make their own weapons improve old weapons and continue to have a very strong fighting force, maybe not as strong as earlier, but I'm not completely sure of the logistics.

  19. #19
    Senno's Avatar C'est la Vie.
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    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    Is it for voting the wrong way, or allowing rocket fire to continue?

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Garbage of Israel

    I love that Seinfeld episode with the mistaken identities and Jerry and George get into a limo going to Madison Square Garden for what they think is a Nicks game, but rather a white power rally.

    "And the Jews use the blacks to sell their drugs..."

    "You're not opening with that are you?"
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

    "There's only a few things I'd actually kill for: revenge, jewelry, Father O'Malley's weedwacker..."
    -Bender (Futurama) awesome

    Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal.
    -Immortal Technique

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