Legions Post Marian

**Drewski** · May 05, 2008, 08:30 PM

Anyone else think that the Romans are just a bit TOO ridiculous after they get Legions and Aquila Legions (in particular the latter is all the ai builds)? Their basic troop is SO much better than anything anyone else has.

Ok I know some answers will be along the lines of "well they were that good or similar", but they become basically unstoppable, and I'm guessing the auto resolve seems to value 1 division of Aquila to about 3 of anything else anyone has.

Current campaign as Macedon, they eventually back stabbed me (well I wasn't helped by the equally ridiculous fact that Rome and Carthage have had an alliance for 60 yrs now, and NEVER went to war at all ..harrrummphh!!

), and my very best super promoted Macedonian army JUST squeaked out the most Pyrric victory of all time, only through me hitting pause every couple of secs for 30 min real time, and directing every single troop. Even charged from behind repeatedly by Gold chevron Heteroi, while engaged in melee from the front , they refuse to rout (grrrrh)..., and these were just very basic no chevron armoury trained aquila and legionaires...

So anyways, anyone else think their stats need toning down a touch?

**Tiberius Nero** · May 05, 2008, 09:20 PM

What battle difficulty are you playing on?

**Tiberius Tosi** · May 05, 2008, 09:43 PM

I've beaten three post-marian AI legions in a row with one Macedonian army of regular phalanx men (forget their name, been a while since I played as 'em) and only took about 15% casualties in total against all three legions, taking out 80% or more of each legion of theirs. Then again this was on M/M, so if you are playing on anything harder then yes the professional leggionaires could be rediculously strong.

Oh yeah, I am not sure but, if Aquila Legionaires have 2 HP, then yes they will be rediculously good in auto-resolve. Someone who knows more about unit stats will have to tell if you if they have 1 or 2 though.

**Jamey** · May 06, 2008, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Tiberius Tosi

Oh yeah, I am not sure but, if Aquila Legionaires have 2 HP, then yes they will be rediculously good in auto-resolve. Someone who knows more about unit stats will have to tell if you if they have 1 or 2 though.

Pretty much nothing has 2 HP any more because of the auto resolve problems. In my glance through the EDU, it looks like multiple hit points exist on:

Generals' bodyguards
Chariots
Spartans
German berserkers

EDIT:
I almost forgot. Legions start with very high morale values. This makes them hard to break. Aquila legions have the 'command' attribute, which adds to their morale. I'm not sure if multiple command units near one another reinforce the morale effect. If you add a good general (their command stars and their morale bonuses add to unit morale) and/or are playing on a harder difficulty (again, morale bonuses), the aquila legions may become virtually unbreakable. This would force you to kill them all without them routing. *shudder*

**Drewski** · May 06, 2008, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by Tiberius Nero

What battle difficulty are you playing on?

Only hard camp/Med battles

Originally Posted by Jamey

Pretty much nothing has 2 HP any more because of the auto resolve problems. In my glance through the EDU, it looks like multiple hit points exist on:

Generals' bodyguards
Chariots
Spartans
German berserkers

EDIT:
I almost forgot. Legions start with very high morale values. This makes them hard to break. Aquila legions have the 'command' attribute, which adds to their morale. I'm not sure if multiple command units near one another reinforce the morale effect. If you add a good general (their command stars and their morale bonuses add to unit morale) and/or are playing on a harder difficulty (again, morale bonuses), the aquila legions may become virtually unbreakable. This would force you to kill them all without them routing. *shudder*

Part I think, was they had a very decent general with them. I did beat them 3 battles in a row, but my losses were horrendous. The thing is, a legion had something like 40 def, 10 shield plus 16 attack (off the top of my head)..the only thing that can almost match that for Macedon, is Hypas, though they only have half the guys. Add to that the pilae throw, and the fact that the ai with Sin's formations was using flanking and reserve tactics brilliantly (congrats are in order there), add the fact that they just wont break, and they are like a super army.

In one of the 3 mega battles, I even had merc Tower Elephants, waited till the right time, kept the Eles out of the fight, then worked the Eles around the flank and charged from behind. The Gaul support routed even before the Eles engaged...but the 8 divisions of Aquila just went "ho hum", disengaged my phalanxes (seemingly instantly without losing any men), and proceeded to chase the Elephants!!...ho hum (or something stronger)..quite embarassing to have your Eles run for their lives in the situation which they were designed for.

So basically, thats my general reasoning why I think the Legions a tad too all powerful....

**Tiberius Nero** · May 06, 2008, 08:09 AM

I know what you mean, the Romans are probably very difficult to balance; many players will at least try playing as Rome (while there are those who play exclussively as them), so they have to be somewhat challenging to play as (which they aren't, imo, not for an experienced player), but at the same time they are the Romans, it is really ugly to play as another faction and have the Romans randomly being swallowed up by some weak faction early on, when they should be your nemesis

, so they do have to have some advantages, as in being overall stronger than other factions. IMO at least.

**florin80** · May 06, 2008, 12:05 PM

Mine too.

**Mikail Mengsk** · May 06, 2008, 12:32 PM

This is my opinion too. ALso, they would face the Black Plague very early!

**Captain Jin** · May 06, 2008, 01:50 PM

Everytime I used Macedon or the Greeks the Phalanx never causes heavy damage early on, but rather you have to engage and pin the enemy and continue to attack for awhile before they start killing your enemies. And on the flip side I've never myself had problems disengaging a phalanx and attack another enemy. The long sarissas and pikes keep your troops from getting all mixed in with the phalanx, so they disengage quickly.

But I can't comment on Marian reforms. I never have gotten them hahah. Everytime I get close on my laptop it starts crashing. Im going to try on my desktop this afternooon though!