Which is the best possible scenario for the results of tomorrow's primaries in North Carolina and Indiana?

[Emperor Taizu]

I'll be making threads like this on the day before a primary day (US time of course). I'm not putting this in the main thread because I want a poll to go along with it. Vote for the best possible scenario in tomorrow's primaries in the poll.

[Heinz Guderian]

I'll be making threads like this on the day before a primary day (US time of course). I'm not putting this in the main thread because I want a poll to go along with this.

Great. Are there going to many more "primaries" coming up? Can i vote for Ron Paul? I dont know who he is, but i heard saying "Ron Paul" pisses off alot of Americans.

[Emperor Taizu]

Great. Are there going to many more "primaries" coming up?

Yes, there are I think 7 more primaries and caucuses after tomorrow.

[Heinz Guderian]

Yes, there are I think 7 more primaries and caucuses after tomorrow.

EXXXCellent news.

[Emperor Taizu]

EXXXCellent news.

Hate to tell you, but Ron Paul is a Republican, so the next 7 doesn't include him as they are only for Democrats.

[Heinz Guderian]

Hate to tell you, but Ron Paul is a Republican, so the next 7 doesn't include him as they are only for Democrats.

*Heinz puts fingers in ears.

I've survived 3 years doing a politics degree without having to learn the American electoral system (selective modules).

[Confederate Jeb]

Hopefully Operation Chaos does its work, which it will, whether Hillary wins both or not.

[Confederate Jeb]

Which is why there is Operation Chaos!

[Senno]

Shhh, Jeb, shhh.

No, those Republicans voting for Democrats in the primaries are truly switching party loyalties.

No Operation Chaos to see here, move along.

[Senno]

I actually agree with Fatsheep. I'm tired of hearing Hillary. We have a long time to go get tired of listening to just McCain and Obama.

[Confederate Jeb]

Shhh, Jeb, shhh.

No, those Republicans voting for Democrats in the primaries are truly switching party loyalties.

No Operation Chaos to see here, move along.

That's what the media thinks. If they would cover the facts for once!

[fatsheep]

Hillary is laying claim to the popular vote by counting Michigan and Florida (video below). Apparently she is still vying for the delegates in those states to be seated despite the fact that Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. It doesn't look like there's going to be re-elections in those states and it doesn't look like the DNC will legitimize the contests held in MI and FL. Hillary is getting a bit desperate.

[Joker85]

The only "fair" solution would be to have another primary in those states. Especially since the Democrats have spent 8 years claiming all the votes should be counted.

Although the best thing for McCain would be for the Democrats to leave those states out in the cold.

[RZZZA]

how would that be a fair solution? the fair solution is to stick to their guns and not seat the delegates. dnc rules mean nothing when a clinton says so?

as for the operation chaos drones, the best you can realistically hope for is clinton taking indiana, in which case obama still wins the nomination so i dont know what youre really hoping to accomplish.

[Joker85]

how would that be a fair solution? the fair solution is to stick to their guns and not seat the delegates. dnc rules mean nothing when a clinton says so?

as for the operation chaos drones, the best you can realistically hope for is clinton taking indiana, in which case obama still wins the nomination so i dont know what youre really hoping to accomplish.

So you don't mind party insiders coming together to negate the votes of millions of Americans?

I don't really care that Obama and Hilary "agreed" to it. Who are they to "agree" to discard the votes of millions of their fellow citizens? Especially after they have spent 8 years babbling about how every single vote must count.

[fatsheep]

how would that be a fair solution? the fair solution is to stick to their guns and not seat the delegates. dnc rules mean nothing when a clinton says so?

That's what I'm saying. Clinton agreed to this just like all the other democratic candidates. Now these states are really important and their democracy matters to her. Did this have anything to do with the fact that they voted for her?

as for the operation chaos drones, the best you can realistically hope for is clinton taking indiana, in which case obama still wins so i dont know what youre really hoping to accomplish.

Obama needs to start putting Clinton away in order to pull more superdelegates to his side. A double win tomorrow would be impressive and I think you'll see some more superdelegates fall into his pocket if he pulls it off. Clinton may not drop out but he can atleast pick up some momentum and start establishing himself as a strong front runner heading into the general election.

So you don't mind party insiders coming together to negate the votes of millions of Americans?

I don't really care that Obama and Hilary "agreed" to it. Who are they to "agree" to discard the votes of millions of the fellow citizens. Especially after they have spent 8 years babbling about how every single vote must count.

Florida and Michigan state governments decided, in their infinite wisdom, to move their primaries up (breaking party rules). They were warned against doing this and knew exactly what they were doing. They paid the price, the DNC decided not to seat the delegates. Everyone agreed to these rules. Yes it sucks but who's fault is it? You can't blame the DNC, the state governments are the ones who knowingly disobeyed party rules in an attempt to attract more attention to their states.

[Emperor Taizu]

I'm sorry, but I think some of you got a bit confused with my poll question. To put it in other words, I was asking "Which is the most possible outcome (scenario) for tomorrow's primaries?"

[Joker85]

That's what I'm saying. Clinton agreed to this just like all the other democratic candidates. Now these states are really important and their democracy matters to her. Did this have anything to do with the fact that they voted for her?



Obama needs to start putting Clinton away in order to pull more superdelegates to his side. A double win tomorrow would be impressive and I think you'll see some more superdelegates fall into his pocket if he pulls it off. Clinton may not drop out but he can atleast pick up some momentum and start establishing himself as a strong front runner heading into the general election.



Florida and Michigan state governments decided, in their infinite wisdom, to move their primaries up (breaking party rules). They were warned against doing this and knew exactly what they were doing. They paid the price, the DNC decided not to seat the delegates. Everyone agreed to these rules. Yes it sucks but who's fault is it? You can't blame the DNC, the state governments are the ones who knowingly disobeyed party rules in an attempt to attract more attention to their states.

The DNC is responsible for making a rule that states "if you move up voting we will negate the votes of millions of your citizens".

Either you count all the votes or you don't.

Damn, where's Jessie Jackson when you need him?

[fatsheep]

The DNC is responsible for making a rule that states "if you move up voting we will negate the votes of millions of your citizens".

Either you count all the votes or you don't.

Damn, where's Jessie Jackson when you need him?

If you didn't have a rule like this then states would move their primaries up to whenever they felt like it. Heck, we might have primaries two years before the general election. They have to set some kind of rule as to which states hold primaries and when. Otherwise all the states would be jumping over each other to move their primaries up. Each state wants the spotlight to be no them and they want influence in who the nominee will be. A good way to do this is have your primary early so you can be sure it will matter.

[Joker85]

If you didn't have a rule like this then states would move their primaries up to whenever they felt like it. Heck, we might have primaries two years before the general election. They have to set some kind of rule as to which states hold primaries and when. Otherwise all the states would be jumping over each other to move their primaries up. Each state wants the spotlight to be no them and they want influence in who the nominee will be. A good way to do this is have your primary early so you can be sure it will matter.

They were held within primary season. You can and will find dozens of excuses to toss away millions of votes. But in the end that is just what you are doing. And for a group of people who have made "count all the votes" their mantra since Florida went against them, Hilary actually has the stronger position.

Given the fact that both of these states will be crucial come November, it really is perplexing how bad the national democratic machine seems to be trying to throw it. They are already going to have a protracted primary fight that may very well go into the convention. Telling people in two huge states "get ed we dont care about your votes should have voted when we told you to" will not help them going against McCain.

Which is why, as I said all along, the only fair solution is to vote again. To be quite honest, it seems to me Obama supporters know both states will go to Hilary in any new vote and are trying to use a technicality to prevent that. And again, after the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Florida in 2000, it is pretty ironic.