The Steppe Union - Would it work?

[Central Asian Qaghan]

With the recent debate over Turkey's status in the EU and the recent changes in the Central Asian republics to get back to their roots, I think it would be high time for a Central Asian or Steppe Union to be created.

This should include The Central Asian Republics (Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan), Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Mongolia as primary members, with Iran, China, Russia, Pakistan, Bulgaria, and Hungary as nominal members. I would include Afghanistan, but the current situation isn't really controlled enough for it to be included.

The primary goal of this Union would be economic, social and Political benefits, with attention paid to China's occupation of Eastern Turkistan and Inner Mongolia, The status of the Russian Eastern Republics and the Economic benefits they can reap from selling various natural products (oil, gas, and mining). Included in this union is the free movement of populations from any territory within the union.

With the recent boost in the Turkish economy, I believe that they could be a model for helping the other countries with giving access to new markets and population. Like the EU, Economic benefits help all of the participants with the additional support of freedom of movement. Hence the Uyghur’s from China or the Hu Chinese from China can effective leave China and find work in say Turkey or any other union member or even the Russian Eastern Republic people can find work as well.

This would be a counter balance to the EU and in short, maybe both a partner in trade and other such things.

The Social benefits would also be enormous, with aid, rescue and other help provided to the members so something like the recent cold in Kyrgyzstan doesn't happen again.

Mostly, I'm envisioning something like the EU.

Would it be possible that such a model could believable exist or is it just a furlong dream?

[The Super Pope]

These countries are far too different plitically, culturally and ethnically. There would be no great advantage to these countries anyway

[antaeus]

the EU only works because its founder states were wealthy to begin with, thus could spend a lot of money creating infrastructure and political process. not only this, but the governments of the EU are similar in their level of development - all are fairly uniformly stable democracies.

central asia has no first world wealthy countries, no base level of free capital to invest on a region wide infrastructure. its governments are a patchwork of dictators, faux democracies, and pawns of foreign powers.. they are plagued by drought, poor water management, islamic militancy, in some cases militaristic mismanagement of the highest order... they would certainly benefit from free access to each others markets, and from an increased ability to negotiate on the world stage.. but its simply not gonna happen any time soon..

as for turkey? it will be in the EU. and thats about where their possible inclusion in any pan central asian union ends.

[finneys13]

Bulgaria, and Hungary

Why? Both EU countries, Hungary anyway is in Central Europe, they left their nomadic past behind 1000 years ago.

[antaeus]

Why? Both EU countries, Hungary anyway is in Central Europe, they left their nomadic past behind 1000 years ago.

because there's a touch of romance in this thread. romance is all about how things were, not how they are... and rose tinted glasses and all that.

[Senno]

If those countries wish to form some sort of alliance to feel more secure (without looking to expand by force) and to have greater buying power, expanded markets, I see no problem with it.

You realize that sneezing makes Russia nervous though, right? A new block on her south might be worse to them.

You don't have to look like or sound like people to be allies with them.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

If those countries wish to form some sort of alliance to feel more secure (without looking to expand by force) and to have greater buying power, expanded markets, I see no problem with it.

You realize that sneezing makes Russia nervous though, right? A new block on her south might be worse to them.

You don't have to look like or sound like people to be allies with them.

I guess it would be a better alternative to the set-up russia has with the Central Asian republics currently.

[Erebus Pasha]

With the recent debate over Turkey's status in the EU and the recent changes in the Central Asian republics to get back to their roots, I think it would be high time for a Central Asian or Steppe Union to be created.

This should include The Central Asian Republics (Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan), Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Mongolia as primary members, with Iran, China, Russia, Pakistan, Bulgaria, and Hungary as nominal members. I would include Afghanistan, but the current situation isn't really controlled enough for it to be included.

The primary goal of this Union would be economic, social and Political benefits, with attention paid to China's occupation of Eastern Turkistan and Inner Mongolia, The status of the Russian Eastern Republics and the Economic benefits they can reap from selling various natural products (oil, gas, and mining). Included in this union is the free movement of populations from any territory within the union.

With the recent boost in the Turkish economy, I believe that they could be a model for helping the other countries with giving access to new markets and population. Like the EU, Economic benefits help all of the participants with the additional support of freedom of movement. Hence the Uyghur’s from China or the Hu Chinese from China can effective leave China and find work in say Turkey or any other union member or even the Russian Eastern Republic people can find work as well.

This would be a counter balance to the EU and in short, maybe both a partner in trade and other such things.

The Social benefits would also be enormous, with aid, rescue and other help provided to the members so something like the recent cold in Kyrgyzstan doesn't happen again.

Mostly, I'm envisioning something like the EU.

Would it be possible that such a model could believable exist or is it just a furlong dream?

The differences between Turkey and some of the Central and Far Eastern Asian countries you've mentioned are much wider than the differences between Turkey and Europe.

An alliance to safeguard against possible Russian aggression wouldn't be such a bad idea though.

[superworms]

The total GDP of those primary members (Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Mongolia) are probably no more than Germany. So which countries will be the one buying up natural resources, absorbing labors and producing sophisticated goods with their existing capitals while the others providing resources and labor?

This is no better than creating an Africa free trade zone with a big question mark of what they are going to trading among themselves? Poverty?

[Central Asian Qaghan]

The total GDP of those primary members (Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Mongolia) are probably no more than Germany. So which countries will be the one buying up natural resources, absorbing labors and producing sophisticated goods with their existing capitals while the others providing resources and labor?

This is no better than creating an Africa free trade zone with a big question mark of what they are going to trading among themselves? Poverty?

Certainly not China and its increasing appitite for grabbing whatever it can reach.

There is a market for gas and as the United Arab Emeriates has shown, with oil and gas money any country can improve its standing. Certainly such a commonwealth has it advantages.

[superworms]

Certainly not China and its increasing appitite for grabbing whatever it can reach.

I thought that is what a free market does --- providing resources to those who need them.

There is a market for gas and as the United Arab Emeriates has shown, with oil and gas money any country can improve its standing. Certainly such a commonwealth has it advantages.

United Arabs buying all the oil and gas? They aren't even great industrial nations. They sell oil mainly for money and practically produce no industrial goods. Big buyers are EU, US, Canada, Australia, China and India and Japan. If you are going to create a trade zone without those powers, you are going nowhere.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

I thought that is what a free market does --- providing resources to those who need them.



United Arabs buying all the oil and gas? They aren't even great industrial nations. They sell oil mainly for money and practically produce no industrial goods. Big buyers are EU, US, Canada, Australia, China and India and Japan. If you are going to create a trade zone without those powers, you are going nowhere.

United Arabs are not buying. They are a collection of emerates and kingdoms which joined togeather in a union to produce oil and gas and ship it to buying countries.

China would have to buy from the Turkish market for example, where it would have to pay an increased amount to transport it back from Turkey. Agian thats using Turkey as a market as it has the most access and is free of the two itchy powers.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

The differences between Turkey and some of the Central and Far Eastern Asian countries you've mentioned are much wider than the differences between Turkey and Europe.

An alliance to safeguard against possible Russian aggression wouldn't be such a bad idea though.

Well the focus I would have is economically, especially creating another outlet for Gas and Oil that doesn't lead directly into Russia. Release more of the stranglehold Russia currently has and hopefully reduce it might. Might calm them down too.

I would agree that Russian aggression would be a good thing to stop. It will also allow a bit more beathing room and allow the republics to be developed more fully than with only Russian interests in mind.

[superworms]

Well the focus I would have is economically, especially creating another outlet for Gas and Oil that doesn't lead directly into Russia. Release more of the stranglehold Russia currently has and hopefully reduce it might. Might calm them down too.

Russia is buying up all the oil? I thought Russia is producing oil along with other countries and sell to the rich nations in the West and rising economic powers like China and India.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Russia is buying up all the oil? I thought Russia is producing oil along with other countries and sell to the rich nations in the West and rising economic powers like China and India.

Seems like your misinformed.

Turkmenistan holds one of the largest gas reserves. The only way to export this gas is through either Iran or Kazakhstan and then on to Russia. Thier union would hopefully open a market to Turkey, thus elimination two of the most itchy countries from the picture and selling it through Turkey would provide a much greater return than sending it through both countries.

Sending to China isn't an option though because there are far to many countries and the market isn't there.

[superworms]

Turkmenistan holds one of the largest gas reserves. The only way to export this gas is through either Iran or Kazakhstan and then on to Russia. Thier union would hopefully open a market to Turkey, thus elimination two of the most itchy countries from the picture and selling it through Turkey would provide a much greater return than sending it through both countries.

how so? Only if Turkey pays more and buys more. If Turkey can't afford or doesn't need those resources because its own lack of industrialization. Then what is the point of forcing these countries to sell them to Turkey, a small market comparison to other big powers.

Sending to China isn't an option though because there are far to many countries and the market isn't there.

Distance is not a problem for trade these days. Plus, new oil pipe lines have been built in recent years to send oil from central Asia and Russia to China. That's old news.

[CrimsonGuard]

Well the focus I would have is economically, especially creating another outlet for Gas and Oil that doesn't lead directly into Russia. Release more of the stranglehold Russia currently has and hopefully reduce it might. Might calm them down too.

I would agree that Russian aggression would be a good thing to stop. It will also allow a bit more beathing room and allow the republics to be developed more fully than with only Russian interests in mind.

You know zero about Central Asia... The only real "ally" of Russia in the region is Kazakhstan, and even they will now send a share of their gas through Caspian sea and not Russia.

Other states are pretty much independant and do not care a about Russia and it's will.

Russian aggression... yeah, right. I would be more worried about Chinese aggression right now.

edit

I think the major point your not getting is no one is selling to Turkey. Gas and Oil are instead piped to Turkey were it is sold and the money with a cut is given back to the government. Thus, forgoing the need for it to go through Russia. We could supply Ukraine with oil without them fearing Russia all the time.

Turkey is frankly closer to Europe and this would off point soem of the costs for all instead of it being shipped to Russia or China.

Ukraine needs gas more than it needs oil. And looking at their behaviour and politics they are not afraid of anything Russian.

If I am not mistaken Turkey has NO oil, so it must be transported from Iran and other Central Asian countries. Now, that's much closer.

[Panzerbear]

An alliance to safeguard against possible Russian aggression wouldn't be such a bad idea though.

some people just really need their heads examined.

why wouldnt just entire globe unite in order not to be invaded by Russia! do you sleep well at night?

[Scar Face]

Not only would this not be beneficial economically to most members involved, but they are all way too varying in culture and outlook. Hungary has essentially nothing to do with say, Uzbekistan. Hungarians were Steppe nomads over a millenia ago for god sakes. Turkey and the Central Asians states have some similarities- language and ethnic group, basically. I'm not too sure on Culture, however. Either way I don't really think many nations would want to join this, let alone Turkey. Turkey is trying to strengthen its ties to Europe, and its legitimacy as a modern European nation, through culture, economy and politics. Why would they do a 360 for utterly no reason or benefit?

[Panzerbear]

Turkey is trying to strengthen its ties to Europe, and its legitimacy as a modern European nation, through culture, economy and politics. Why would they do a 360 for utterly no reason or benefit?

Turkey = modern European nation? now that was hillarous.