templars, hospitallers and the holy land...

[Soul Forge]

Ok, I'm playing as knights templar in SS6 and almost immediately i get the proposal to build St. Johns chaper house in Antioch (hospitallers), which i do. Those knights come in handy. But then i read somewhere on the forums that you can't have hospitallers and templar in the same empire (unless conquer a city with another guild, but even then can't build those knights).

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is i want to know if templars are better (certainly more roleplay in the fact that I'm playing knights templar), or can i get templar eventually even though i have hospitallers? Am i making a big deal of this?

On a related note i have conquered Jerusalem, but it has Master Explorers Guild. I think you get points towards templar if your city has Muslim provinces on its borders and it's goverened by at least 5 chivalry general, both of which are true for jerusalem.

Should i tear down St. John's and Master Explorers and hope for Templar?

Should i tear down Explorers and train priests to eventually get Theologists guild? (i hear you get more piety from Jerusalem)

Also, i know that most people exterminate muslims as catholic factions (killing prisoners, razing, etc..). Will the pope like me if i do this? I will get dread and bad rep, and i don't want this...

Blah whatever, so many things to think about..

Thanks for any help in advance

[clandestino]

Templars and Hospitalers have exactly the same stats so there's no real diference between them. St Johnn's chapter house on the other hand give you health bonus so I preffer it to Templar's chapter house. The best thing would be to destroy Explorers guild and wait for St' Johns chapter house. With two chapter houses you will be able to quickly train high quality cavalry in your cities. Theologian's guild is also a good choice and you should take it if propossed.

[Soul Forge]

Oh yea, forgot about the health bonus. Kinda sucks though to play as templars but not have the guild. Templar knights are white instead of black though, which would really go well with the rest of my army. I heard that its a harder guild to get as well. Alright i will destroy the Explorer's guild and get either two you suggest.

Thanks Clandestino.

What are other people's suggestions?

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Hospitallers can be upgraded to full plate. Templars only to partial plate.

[Militia Cavalry]

Roleplaying? Pretend that they're an elite part of the Templars!

[Soul Forge]

Alright, I guess I've given up on the templar guild. Still, it sucks that hospitallers get better bonuses, when they should get the same. Oh and i just got Theologists guild in Jerusalem (yay).

Also, I didn't get a clear answer from my other thread, but can you get bonuses for priests or generals, if you join a priest to a general's army and go to battles?

[Harry Lime]

Moved to Stainless Steel

[Marcus Fulvius]

Alright, I guess I've given up on the templar guild. Still, it sucks that hospitallers get better bonuses, when they should get the same. Oh and i just got Theologists guild in Jerusalem (yay).

Also, I didn't get a clear answer from my other thread, but can you get bonuses for priests or generals, if you join a priest to a general's army and go to battles?

your priests might gain traits that increase violence when he's joined to an army. and if its a crusading army he has a better chance of getting ancillaries such as paladin or crusading knight, as well as increase his chances of getting traits like beacon of faith and such.

your generals would have a better chance of getting more piety... but no more chance than any governor in a province that has a priest in the same city as he is... traits that describe as something along the lines of "having spent time with priests, this man is seen as being more pious for it"... dont remember exactly what the trait is called.

course, thats just what ive observed, never heard it mentioned anywhere in writing.

[Inhuman One]

Neither get fullplate, both get a half plate appearance which doesnt look like anything they would ever wear.

[DrunkNIrishMan]

KT chapter houses only give you mounted knights. Hospitallers give you both dismounted and mounted, along with the health bonus.

[MarsWalker]

just like me

edit export_descr_guilds.txt

;------------------------------------------
Guild templars_chapter_house
building guild_templars_chapter_house
;exclude st_johns_chapter_house
levels 100 250 500

;------------------------------------------
Guild st_johns_chapter_house
building guild_st_johns_chapter_house
;exclude templars_chapter_house
levels 100 250 500

enjoy

[RomaVictor6969]

I think the templars look the best with there robes on i hate it when they lose them when you upgrade the armor x.x

[Inhuman One]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161871

[Ftmch]

Don't you get to recruit all the templar units when just playing as the Knights Templars? or do you actually need to build chapter houses for that? I remember when playing as KOJ that I could just build templars etc. right away.

[Tate]

Don't you get to recruit all the templar units when just playing as the Knights Templars? or do you actually need to build chapter houses for that? I remember when playing as KOJ that I could just build templars etc. right away.

This is correct, you do not need a Templar chapter house. Playing as Templars you can recruit the dismounted knights in castles once you upgrade to barracks (I think).

Always get the St. John's Chapter House as it will come sooner than your castle upgrades.

[Ftmch]

This is correct, you do not need a Templar chapter house. Playing as Templars you can recruit the dismounted knights in castles once you upgrade to barracks (I think).

Can you recruit horsed knights if you upgrade the stables then? or atleast the confrere knights?

[Sarpedon]

But you can get hospitallers almost immediately at Antioch, which is the saving grace for the Templars, considering they can't even recruit a single 'templar knight' for 100 years after the start.....

[Marcus Fulvius]

This is correct, you do not need a Templar chapter house. Playing as Templars you can recruit the dismounted knights in castles once you upgrade to barracks (I think).

Always get the St. John's Chapter House as it will come sooner than your castle upgrades.

unless you mod the export file you'll always get hospitallers first anyways... namely because both have the same triggers, but hospitallers also have an additional trigger due to the 50 percent muslim border thing, which templars dont.

personally i prefer to mod it so that you can have both chapter houses, but only one or the other's headquarters... and i also mod the triggers.... usually making kt only need a general with 2-3 chivalry and more pts per crusade (to reflect the more warlike nature of the templars)... also make failing crusades hurt getting templar chapter houses more.

[Alexios Komnenos]

What is the use of the Explorer's Guild, apart from giving missions?

Thanks

[Inhuman One]

It would make sense if templar knights could be recruited from castles.

They are a knightly order, it would make sense for them to have knights earlier.

Alternatively, they could gain Mailed Knights with a creative reskin.