Byzantine infantry

[Ramesses the Great]

In the vanilla MIITW the Varanguian Guard were the best infantry the Byzantines had to offer, but in SS 6.1, Dismounted Latinkon see to have taken that place, and even Alamanoi seem better. Why aren't they the best Byzantine infantry anymore? Now they can't compete with the other nations good infantry like Dismounted Gothic Knights, Temple Guards, etc.

[Decius the Mad]

They're attack infantry. Some others here could better elabourate, but they're not line infantry.

I still Prefer Dismounted Lancers, with the great upgrade capability.

[Caesar Clivus]

Why are they different from vanilla? Because this isn't vanilla. All unit stats have been changed to create a better unit balance.

Varangian Guard, like all 2-handed infantry are best used to attack the flanks of enemy units rather than front-on attacks. Like Decius said, they are not supposed to take a place on the front line, a spot best reserved for sword and board and spear/pike units.

[Point Blank]

Actually, if you run some 1v1 combats vs eg Dismounted Gothic Knights, they will frequently win.

[Inhuman One]

I dont mind the status of the byzantine infantry units, its just the appearance I am not happy about.

The Latinkon where given a great appearance in an earlier version but it was removed for a far less original one later on.

Also, the Varangian guard and that two handed swordsmen unit should not look byzantine since they arent from there.

[Eastern Roman]

I dont mind the status of the byzantine infantry units, its just the appearance I am not happy about.

The Latinkon where given a great appearance in an earlier version but it was removed for a far less original one later on.

Also, the Varangian guard and that two handed swordsmen unit should not look byzantine since they arent from there.

I don't like the look either...

It isn't a proper look for an Imperial Roman Army
even at its end...

[Lord Marsh]

Their non-Roman heritage is found in their weapons (and, in game terms, in their voice), it seems rather likely that - for logistical ease - they would have adopted Byzantine armour and uniforms by the 11th Century

In terms of their usage, they are wonderful assault companies but clearly their lack of shield is a disadvantage during longer engagements. Maybe try Pronoia infantry?

[Imperator of Rome]

I dont mind the status of the byzantine infantry units, its just the appearance I am not happy about.

The Latinkon where given a great appearance in an earlier version but it was removed for a far less original one later on.

Also, the Varangian guard and that two handed swordsmen unit should not look byzantine since they arent from there.

Yes they should,because the sons of the men in the guard might join the guard and they would be used to Greek culture.Even before Alexius Comnenus' reign,the Varangian guard have adopted armours from the imperial armory....the only thing they kept would be their swords.
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=byz2f1uc.jpg

[Gatorgolfer]

Lots of feudal rulers were careful not to let membership of elite units become hereditary. The Varangians, Jomsvikings, Mamlukes, and Janissaries are the examples that leap to mind. Divided loyalties and all that.

[fieldmarshal]

I dont mind the status of the byzantine infantry units, its just the appearance I am not happy about.

The Latinkon where given a great appearance in an earlier version but it was removed for a far less original one later on.

Also, the Varangian guard and that two handed swordsmen unit should not look byzantine since they arent from there.

I agree with the look of the Byzantine's, 4.2 i think used whitewolfs byzantium armor progression mod. I personally prefer whitewolfs to DG's textures for Byzantines. DG did a great job on Novgorod tho.

[Inhuman One]

Every single outfit on that picture looks better than the stuff currently in the game.

Sorry but when upgraded, all byzantine units look exactly the same, they use the same models, helmets sometimes differ slightly but thats it.

Only the Latinkon look original, the rest is all the same, just having different weapons in hand.

[Imperator of Rome]

Every single outfit on that picture looks better than the stuff currently in the game.

Sorry but when upgraded, all byzantine units look exactly the same, they use the same models, helmets sometimes differ slightly but thats it.

Only the Latinkon look original, the rest is all the same, just having different weapons in hand.

Heh,those outfits were from around the best period in the Eastern Empire,the reigns of the great leaders,Nicephorus Phocas,John Tzimisces, and Basil II who was reigning as Basileus in 1000.

Basil II (Greek: Βασίλειος Β΄ Βουλγαροκτόνος, Basileios II Boulgaroktonos i.e "the Bulgar-slayer"), also known as Basil II the Bulgar-Slayer and Basil the Young (958 – December 15, 1025), was a Byzantine emperor from the Macedonian dynasty from January 10, 976 to December 15, 1025. Under his reign, the Byzantine Empire reached its greatest height in nearly five centuries.

During that period,most kingdoms feared fighting a pitched battle with any army of the Empire.

Also Broken Crescent does really good research,I can't find anything about what the Eastern Empire used from 1200 up,but I know for sure BC got the look right.

[Lucius Aemilius Paulus Macedon]

wtf???
varians?
aren't they vikings?

[Caesar Clivus]

wtf???
varians?
aren't they vikings?

Yes. They were the bodyguard of the Byzantine Emperors. They were a unit of, for want of a better term, vikings from Kievan Rus.

[Gorrrrrn]

varangians were a mixed bunch

at one point they had quite a few anglo-saxon refugees from the Norman conquest

see:

English Refugees in the Byzantine Armed Forces: The Varangian Guard and Anglo-Saxon Ethnic Consciousness

By Nicholas C.J. Pappas

http://www.deremilitari.org/resource...es/pappas1.htm

[hekk]

Originally the Varangian Guards were mostly Swedish and Kievan vikings, but later many Danes, Norwegians and even Anglo-Saxons joined it.

[Fenix_120]

Originally the Varangian Guards were mostly Swedish and Kievan vikings, but later many Danes, Norwegians and even Anglo-Saxons joined it.

The Varangian guard had so many Saxon Huscalrs in it after Hastings that they were actually called the "English guard" by most of the army.


I wanted to replace the two handed sword unit with an English guard unit, so it would be Varangian guardsmen being replaced by the more powerful and advanced English guard but I was not sure how other people would like this so I left it be.

[Lucius Aemilius Paulus Macedon]

Originally the Varangian Guards were mostly Swedish and Kievan vikings, but later many Danes, Norwegians and even Anglo-Saxons joined it.

my mom has a masters degree in this stuff so let me answer:
the varaginans were vikings from sweeden and some denmark who had travled through russia wich was common at this time.
there were no kevian rus vikings becuse the kevian rus was infact a Scandinavian warrior-elite state that ruled a majority of Slavic subjects.

[Imperator of Rome]

varangians were a mixed bunch

at one point they had quite a few anglo-saxon refugees from the Norman conquest

see:

English Refugees in the Byzantine Armed Forces: The Varangian Guard and Anglo-Saxon Ethnic Consciousness

By Nicholas C.J. Pappas

http://www.deremilitari.org/resource...es/pappas1.htm

Indeed,that is why I think the Guard charged the Normans at Dyraccium with so much reckless impeutus.Because they had irrational memories of how they lost at Hastings since most of the Guard were anglo.

[Eastern Roman]

English, Vikings, Danes, Norwegians,Swedish in the ranks of the roman
army....
now i know what caused Byzantium's fall