Sami Al-Hajj released from Gitmo after 6 Years

[Tajir]

Guantanamo concentration camp must be shut down. I don't know if this is as bad or worse than McCarthyism.

[boofhead]

Well, if he hadn't starved himself he'd look fine. If the rats had it better I daresay they must have some good plump looking rats over there in Cuba.

Besides, he can write a book now and he'll be set for life.

[Joker85]

"IM GONNA STOP EATING THAT WILL SHOW THE INFIDELS"

6 months later...

"LOOK AT ME THEY ARE STARVING US HALP HALP"

[Tajir]

6 year imprisonment without charge is completely wrong.

What's worse is that his captors said that they were handing him over to the Sudanese government for extradition. Are they intending on life imprisonment for this innocent man?

[boofhead]

6 year imprisonment without charge is completely wrong.

True. But where's your thread about David Hicks, the Aussie?

Are they intending on life imprisonment for this innocent man?

Who says he's innocent? Him? It's a bit hard for mere net-surfers like you and me to judge, I would think.

[jankren]

True. But where's your thread about David Hicks, the Aussie?

Dont forget about Jihad Jack.

Who says he's innocent? Him? It's a bit hard for mere net-surfers like you and me to judge, I would think.

The last time I check in America everyone is innocent until proven otherwise and this guy never even faced trial.

Wait, Gitmo isnt exactly in America.

[James Cook]

6 year imprisonment without charge is completely wrong.

Agreed. atleast these ppl could have charged him with something

And there are probaly more innocent ppl sitting in guantanamo as we write.
But some may be quilty, its really hard to say.
And as some one said they dont wear uniforms and stuff

[Joker85]

People have a hard time understanding that there is now a category in between Prisoner of War and common criminal.

As long as they do, they'll keep feigning outrage that terrorists are not being charged or released.

[Tajir]

Fair enough, we don't know his entire case. But for six years, he's had no trial, that's a bit cruel. And Gitmo isn't a regular prison either. David Hicks was a victim of error, I wonder if the same can be said about Sami.

[boofhead]

Fair enough, we don't know his entire case. But for six years, he's had no trial, that's a bit cruel.

I couldn't agree more.

And Gitmo isn't a regular prison either.

What is a regular prison? Ever been to one? At least in Gitmo you aren't going to be raped.

David Hicks was a victim of error, I wonder if the same can be said about Sami.

No, David Hicks was a mercenary, and a traitor, and deserved what he got. Of course, it would be have been more humane if they'd held a trial and had him shot.

I can't speak for poor half-starved Sami, though.

[Tajir]

No, David Hicks was a mercenary, and a traitor, and deserved what he got. Of course, it would be have been more humane if they'd held a trial and had him shot.

I can't speak for poor half-starved Sami, though.

Oh really, that's David Hicks' story? I thought when you said his name that he was just a generic wrongly-accused man, I was just going along. I had no idea about his background.


Senno, try laying off mainstream news and digging further from multiple, non-broadcast news groups and sources. Maybe its just I who thinks differently, I can't for a second believe that Al Qaeda is real. For one, our government can locate and kill African militia leaders without even calling for a bounty hunt, yet they have 200,000 troops and limitless sources in the middle east and "Al Qaeda" leaders still roam around freely. Even major Al Qaeda bases and camps can't be touched. I question a lot of things I hear, at least more than I'm likely to believe them.

[boofhead]

Oh really, that's David Hicks' story? I thought when you said his name that he was just a generic wrongly-accused man, I was just going along. I had no idea about his background.

Sorry, maybe I should have explained

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks

[Senno]

Senno, try laying off mainstream news and digging further from multiple, non-broadcast news groups and sources. Maybe its just I who thinks differently, I can't for a second believe that Al Qaeda is real. For one, our government can locate and kill African militia leaders without even calling for a bounty hunt, yet they have 200,000 troops and limitless sources in the middle east and "Al Qaeda" leaders still roam around freely. Even major Al Qaeda bases and camps can't be touched. I question a lot of things I hear, at least more than I'm likely to believe them.

Umm, well if Al Qaeda isn't real, I'm finding it hard to find a rational reason to debate. I believe Al Qaeda to be quite real.

What I watch is far beyond Fox. MSNBC for the left, CNN for hmm, sliding more to populism now, kinda moderate maybe, Fox to actually hear a liberal and conservative debate an issue. Lot more CSPAN for unfiltered info. Well, subject to Congressmens bias in case of live hearings.

What I read may also suprise you. 2nd to last book read was:
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Wire-In.../dp/1594200661

Thus my position on Gitmo is maybe a bit more nuanced than what I typed above. But killing Americans by flying a plane into skyscrapes is an act of war. And then the consequences come, not all good for everyone.

Relying on one source for info makes Senno a dull boy. I read and gather, and am quite free to have a different opinion. And I suppose I do.

[mrmouth]

Fair enough, we don't know his entire case. But for six years, he's had no trial, that's a bit cruel. And Gitmo isn't a regular prison either. David Hicks was a victim of error, I wonder if the same can be said about Sami.

What would any of these trials look like? You have soldiers/marines taking these guys into custody. Are you going to pull these guys out of their units, out of possible leadership roles within these units? Then fly them back to the US, to testify at a trial that could takes years, in which the defendants would likely not have anybody to call as wittinesses for their defense?

It wouldn't be a trial at all. Trying to assign the process of law to certain situations just doesn't work.

The guy should be happy he wasn't swept up by a Muslim nation where he would have been truly tortured and hung.

The US says things don't add up about this guy. They have had independent reviews of his case, and every time nobody can explain, nor defend, the large sums of money he transfered while in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Chechnya.

All you have is people from the BBC acting outraged, its hardly a proof of his innocence. Whats more, is these people dont really know him, they have just rallied to his side.

[Senno]

Geneva Conventions allow holding of P.O.W.'s without trial until the end of a conflict. Whatever you call them, we can hold them, indefinitely. And maybe we will.

That al-qaeda doesn't wear uniforms or otherwise follow the rules of warfare means it's hard to identify them. They can simply blend away.

Thus, in identifying a member of al-qaeda, it's possible some who are not will also be identified, then held, perhaps indefinitely. Luckily for him, not so.

If you want to fly airplanes into our skyscrapers, be prepared for some fallout. If that includes being held indefinitely, well, thats part of war.

I'd rather hold someone than explain to someone's mother that her son died because we let someone go back incorrectly. Again, that's war. Hard choices, hard consequences.

It was brought to us. Now others must deal with the consequences. Unfortunate maybe, but it's a hard world.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Oh those poor TERRORISTS.
Guantanamo isn't a concentration camp. But that's an interesting idea.

Waterboarding? I'm for it.
Torture? I'm for it.

Why should we have any mercy for these fanatics? What have they done to warrant it?

Hell, they probably live more comfortably in the camp than in their little caves. Why should the US always be the humane ones? Pleanty of our boys have been tortured and killed. When they capture one of ours they mutilate him and drag him through the streets. Real civilized.

Gotmo isn't unamerican, it's undemocratic. But why should our rights and democracy count for those who mean to destroy it?

The terrorists want to take people's rights away, why should they get theirs?

Geneva Conventions allow holding of P.O.W.'s without trial until the end of a conflict. Whatever you call them, we can hold them, indefinitely. And maybe we will.

Hopefully forever. We can't release these psychos back into society. We're doing the world a favor by detaining them. Unless of course one likes living in perpetual fear.

Seriously, I don't see how you guys can pity them.



yeah. they deserve our utmost hospitality.

[lord o kelly]

Oh those poor TERRORISTS.
Guantanamo isn't a concentration camp. But that's an interesting idea.

Waterboarding? I'm for it.
Torture? I'm for it.

Why should we have any mercy for these fanatics? What have they done to warrant it?

Hell, they probably live more comfortably in the camp than in their little caves. Why should the US always be the humane ones? Pleanty of our boys have been tortured and killed. When they capture one of ours they mutilate him and drag him through the streets. Real civilized.

Gotmo isn't unamerican, it's undemocratic. But why should our rights and democracy count for those who mean to destroy it?

The terrorists want to take people's rights away, why should they get theirs?



Hopefully forever. We can't release these psychos back into society. We're doing the world a favor by detaining them. Unless of course one likes living in perpetual fear.

Seriously, I don't see how you guys can pity them.



yeah. they deserve our utmost hospitality.

+rep couldn't have said it better

[Niles Crane]

Oh those poor TERRORISTS.
Guantanamo isn't a concentration camp. But that's an interesting idea.

Waterboarding? I'm for it.
Torture? I'm for it.

Why should we have any mercy for these fanatics? What have they done to warrant it?

Hell, they probably live more comfortably in the camp than in their little caves. Why should the US always be the humane ones? Pleanty of our boys have been tortured and killed. When they capture one of ours they mutilate him and drag him through the streets. Real civilized.

Gotmo isn't unamerican, it's undemocratic. But why should our rights and democracy count for those who mean to destroy it?

The terrorists want to take people's rights away, why should they get theirs?



Hopefully forever. We can't release these psychos back into society. We're doing the world a favor by detaining them. Unless of course one likes living in perpetual fear.

Seriously, I don't see how you guys can pity them.



yeah. they deserve our utmost hospitality.

What about those who are innocent? Or do you subscribe to the guilty until proven innocent doctrine?

[green tea]

Gotmo isn't unamerican, it's undemocratic. But why should our rights and democracy count for those who mean to destroy it?

The terrorists want to take people's rights away, why should they get theirs?

Yes, beautiful, this is what I am talking about. I will explain it to you, and I hope you are able to understand it. My explanation is a question:

What is the difference between the USA and the terrorists?

If you don´t give human rights like a fair trial, the right not to be tortured etc., all this the USA are so proud of, even to people you suspect to be "evil", then there is no difference. What makes the USA better than any criminal organisation? Of course only things like those principles the constitution is made of. And you say "we have it, but not for every one"?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Yes, beautiful, this is what I am talking about. I will explain it to you, and I hope you are able to understand it. My explanation is a question:

very socratic of you.

What is the difference between the USA and the terrorists?

Is this second grade social studies?

I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit here and go into detail about that comment. If you can't see differences than you have your own set of problems to worry about.

One example: Freedom of Religion.

there.

If you don´t give human rights like a fair trial, the right not to be tortured etc., all this the USA are so proud of, even to people you suspect to be "evil", then there is no difference. What makes the USA better than any criminal organisation? Of course only things like those principles the constitution is made of. And you say "we have it, but not for every one"?

terrorists don't deserve the same treatment as everyone else. that's my policy. Unfortunately it's not the US' policy, or none of these people would be let go.

Welcome back in the Middle Ages! The whole western juridical system is based on the assumption that everybody is innocent, until proven different. Basically you question your own constitution.

Our country was founded upon questioning things. I'm being quite patriotic here.

Human rights abuses were always wrong, are always wrong and will be always wrong. Not sure, why you support abuses.

If someone says they are going to kill you, are you going to fight back? Or welcome them in for dinner?

I can tell you right now I'm gonna defend myself.

In this case, two wrongs make a right. Prevention is the best tool we have to fight terrorism.