Phalanx everywere

[Rameses the second best]

I am a bit confused with the fact that for some reason all of the spearmen are in the phalanx formation. I was wondering if there was a glitch or you actually programed it into the game, can you please fill me in.

[florin80]

all of the spearmen are in the phalanx formation

Given that it`s a false statement, maybe you can fill us in as to what you`re playing and what units exactly you are refering to.

[Rameses the second best]

I am playing RTR Platinum Edition 1.9

Its all of the units with short spears e.g. Triarii, Gallic warband and libyan spearmen have there spears thrust foward in a phalanx formation. Even when they are running at top speed they have there spears thrust forward.

[mcantu]

I am playing RTR Platinum Edition 1.9

Its all of the units with short spears e.g. Triarii, Gallic warband and libyan spearmen have there spears thrust foward in a phalanx formation. Even when they are running at top speed they have there spears thrust forward.

If a unit is running then it is definitely not using the phalanx formation...

[Ivanelme]

I am playing RTR Platinum Edition 1.9

Its all of the units with short spears e.g. Triarii, Gallic warband and libyan spearmen have there spears thrust foward in a phalanx formation. Even when they are running at top speed they have there spears thrust forward.

having a spear pointed forward does not make a formation a phalanx. A phalanx is a formation of tightly packed men with locked shields. Triarii typically have some space between them much like most of the Roman units, and the warband usually don't fight in a closed formation like the Macedonian, Greek, Ptolemaic, and Seleucid units do. It's very easy to spot what units are in a phalanx as when in combat after a charge if the Greek units, they will start to form a line and shift as an entire body. I have yet to see the Triarii or Warband units do this.

[Rameses the second best]

Yeah I know its rather odd but what can I do about it?

They have there spears in a hedgehog like formation so it looks like a phalanx to me.

[Tiberius Nero]

Apparently it is a phalanx in the broad sense of the word; Julius Caesar described Gallic and Germanic formations as "phalanx". "Phalanx" as a word means just "battle formation" or "army arrayed for battle". How would you have the units look like?

In RTW mods generally people call a unit "phalanx" if it has the phalanx special ability (like in pikemen phalanx), so this may cause some confusion, if you don't specify what the problem is exactly.

[florin80]

Yeah I know its rather odd but what can I do about it?

They have there spears in a hedgehog like formation so it looks like a phalanx to me.

They don`t have the phalanx ability though. AND only the hoplites and similar units(plus triarii and italic spearmen iirc) are in such a formation, generated by the use of the short_pike in EDU. The rest of the spearmen - and there are alot of them - are in regular formations. There is a pinned thread on the changes done to units. The reason to why things are like that is given there, no point in repeating it.

[Rameses the second best]

Yeah its just what Tiberius Nero said, they look like they are in a phalanx but there is no button for the ability.

And thanks for the thread

[pizzailike]

Ok, While I have not seen Phalanx everywhere I have noticed they are disproportionately powerful. I've had Roman Legions charge them in the back as they run away and get killed while the phalanx never turned around. WTF! Ok Phalanx were powerful ONLY AND I MEAN ONLY in the front. Most lacked swords. Legion + sword = death at close range. This version is saying something totally different and I hate it. Somebody fix this plz.

[Tiberius Nero]

Ok, While I have not seen Phalanx everywhere I have noticed they are disproportionately powerful. I've had Roman Legions charge them in the back as they run away and get killed while the phalanx never turned around. WTF!

Are you sure you hadn't forgotten some of your own men on "fire at will" shooting at the fleeing enemies? Routers do not cause casualties.

[Mikail Mengsk]

it's easy to see: a real phalanx can't run unless it break its formation, lifting his pikes in the air. Simple spearmen can run.

[Tiberius Nero]

He probably means all spearmen units look like a classical hoplite phalanx (which is fine in my opinion btw), not that they have the phalanx ability.

[Ivanelme]

The Greek City State units don't have phalanx formation but still fight in the manner of one. A phalanx charge could be done in the manner that the Greek units do. The first ranks tend to be the ones that make contact, and the back ranks reform behind them in the formation.

[Mikail Mengsk]

i have never found that, unless you were charging elite veteran phalanxes. Even a not-so-powerful infantry unit could rout a phalanx if charging its rear. It's not so easy and it's not a quick work, but they do it.

[florin80]

Never saw it. Roman legionaries charging pretty much anything in the back should brake that unit. Are you sure you`re playing vanilla RTRPE.

As for charging anything in its back while they are not stationary, of course, as in any mod or the vanilla game reduces the effectiveness of the charge and you do take casualties before the enemy turn as a result of your initial charge. It happens with cavalry too. And it is how the engine functions. The most effective charge in the rear of the enemy happens while that unit is already engaged.

[pizzailike]

Yes, I am using Rome. I surround the Phalanx like in the original rome total war and instead of them routing, they slaughter me. I mean if it happened just once I would blow it off but this is ridiculous . Not cool, rome is getting its ass kicked despite hill advantages, charge bonuses, superior numbers, and IT BEING ROME!!!! You guys have made the phalanx formations too tough to crack guys. Macedonia is now in Gaul, Germania, Thrace, and Italy and its taking the cake man. So if anyone has some suggests by all means point them out. If I might make a suggestion. Lowering the defense on the units that can phalanx would be an idea. Cause even on walls barbs can't defend against these units. That's not fair or correct no matter how I look at it.

As a second note, why can't Greece get even a single unit to phalanx while Macedonia of whom learned EVERYTHING from Greece has 3 phalanx units? Just wondering guys:hmmm:

[Drewski]

Yes, I am using Rome. I surround the Phalanx like in the original rome total war and instead of them routing, they slaughter me. I mean if it happened just once I would blow it off but this is ridiculous . Not cool, rome is getting its ass kicked despite hill advantages, charge bonuses, superior numbers, and IT BEING ROME!!!! You guys have made the phalanx formations too tough to crack guys. Macedonia is now in Gaul, Germania, Thrace, and Italy and its taking the cake man. So if anyone has some suggests by all means point them out. If I might make a suggestion. Lowering the defense on the units that can phalanx would be an idea. Cause even on walls barbs can't defend against these units. That's not fair or correct no matter how I look at it.

As a second note, why can't Greece get even a single unit to phalanx while Macedonia of whom learned EVERYTHING from Greece has 3 phalanx units? Just wondering guys:hmmm:

Sorry man, but you must be doing something very strange. I'm playing Thrace atm, and went through Macedonia's phalanx units like a hot knife through butter. Just engage them from the front with a lesser troop (e.g. Warbands), then quickly work a tougher unit around the back and charge. With Bastarnae and Thracian Infantry, the Phalanx were dropping like they were hit by a machine gun. Make sure your troops don't have the "guard button" highlighted, and they will always attempt to get around the sides and back.

Another tactic in smaller battles vs Phalanx, is engage again from the front with lesser units, then run archers/slingers/pelasts (Archers with fire arrows are best) around the side and shoot the locked phalanx in the back....again, if done right, they drop like flies and rout very quickly...(N.B. To do this, you need to take the Archers/slingers/pelasts out of Skirmish mode).

A last tactic, is to charge them in the back with Cavalry once engaged in melee from the front, but this although extremely effective for mass battles, is very expensive in replacement Cavalry costs.

P.S.:- As Rome, put all your units in "fire at will" mode, and approach carefully, making sure all pilae get thrown before any melee contact is made.This absolutely decimates a "Phalanx type" army, and often has them running without any hand to hand combat taking place.

[Ivanelme]

As a second note, why can't Greece get even a single unit to phalanx while Macedonia of whom learned EVERYTHING from Greece has 3 phalanx units? Just wondering guys:hmmm:

All the Greek Hopliti fight in phalanx formation.

[florin80]

It would probably help if you would care to give any kind of details whatsoever. Like what pike units you are talking about, how many men they had, what experience, armor/weapon upgrades and the same for your units. Because there are a lot of phalangites in the game and they have different stats. You`re probably the first to find the rtr roman units underpowered and the phalanx units a big problem. They`re actually one of the least dangerous units if you know how to fight them.

As for the phalanx question. Someone would need to explain to you the meaning of the word/concept and then the differences between the greek and macedonian phalanx and what the rtw phalanx ability actually depicts. It`s a long discussion and you could probably answer it yourself by doing a search since it came up a number of times.