schiltrom & shield wall

[Delvecchio1975]

Can anyone tell me what these are good for? I tried using them in a variety of situations (against cavalry charge, to defend a gate, ... ) but in all cases the soldiers in these formations seem to be worse of than fighting in regular formations ...

[Tiberius Nero]

Both are meant to be used to minimize your casualties, they are not that good for inflicting casualties; shield wall can be very useful in some circumstances, the only use I can think for schiltrom is if you have an isolated unit which is going to be attacked from all directions and you have no option but to fight.

[pannonian]

AFAICS schiltroms have no flanks, while shieldwalls are harder to break into (I haven't seen whether or not they're harder to push back though). Another advantage of a shieldwalled unit is its smaller size. Where there are small gaps that a normal sized unit may not be able to squeeze through without getting caught on something, I sometimes shieldwall a unit and rush it through the gap before reverting to normal formation when it's reached open space.

[Delvecchio1975]

hm, not very convincing. i noticed that e.g. triarii in a shield wall die like flies, and putting them in a breach in a wall (i thought, you know, shield"wall", can use that as a surrogate wall) is disastrous. and a pack of horses simply overruns a schiltrom, where in normal formation they (e.g. illyrian spearmen) would at least inflict some heavy losses on the cavalry ...

[florin80]

There is an EDU guide here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111344
maybe you can find more answers there. Or give some, who knows?

[Jamey]

I've used Schiltrom to great effect in M2TW, but not in RTR. There, I place spear militia in schiltrom behind gates and force the enemy to engage them to get into the city proper. I'll back them with other units (preferably heavy infantry). It generates large casualties on both sides, but tends to be a winning tactic. One major advantage is that it concentrates my casualties in the easily retrained militia.

I've used shield wall in RTR. I build a reasonably deep line (6 men or so) of shield wall units and protect the flanks (preferably with buildings or other impassible terrain). This is very effective against lighter enemy units. I've wiped out hundreds of Gauls and Iberians in individual battles using my Triarii or Gallic Auxilia in shield wall. My casualties were generally single digits. This tactic allows me to push towards a well garrisoned town square without having to flank units or take substantial casualties. I would not do this against pikes. I'd be curious to see how effective it would be against massed heavy infantry, but I haven't had that opportunity. I've also never used it when the enemy had substantial cavalry left.

[AqD]

I've used shield wall in RTR. I build a reasonably deep line (6 men or so) of shield wall units and protect the flanks (preferably with buildings or other impassible terrain). This is very effective against lighter enemy units. I've wiped out hundreds of Gauls and Iberians in individual battles using my Triarii or Gallic Auxilia in shield wall. My casualties were generally single digits. This tactic allows me to push towards a well garrisoned town square without having to flank units or take substantial casualties.

Have you tried it without using the shield wall? I got similar result with my greek hoplite without using it - casuality is very low once the formation is fixed and no more gap is left open.

I think it's simply because triarii and gallic auxilia have high defense. The extra attack of Iberian/Gallic swordsmen is nearly useless against these heavy infantry in real battle, because it'd have to be higher than the total defense of enemy to make a noticable difference - only a few units such as thracian falx can reach that.
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Unique Glass Pipes

[pannonian]

I've just given it a try, and shieldwall seems to make them push forward against oncoming enemies, as well as increase their pushing ability.

[Jamey]

Have you tried it without using the shield wall? I got similar result with my greek hoplite without using it - casuality is very low once the formation is fixed and no more gap is left open.

I think it's simply because triarii and gallic auxilia have high defense. The extra attack of Iberian/Gallic swordsmen is nearly useless against these heavy infantry in real battle, because it'd have to be higher than the total defense of enemy to make a noticable difference - only a few units such as thracian falx can reach that.

I noticed that using shield wall in those situation lowered my casualties. It was noticeable, but not earth shattering. My casualties were already pretty low. I haven't used shield wall a lot - mostly with a legion of Gallic Auxilia I was using to conquer much of Iberia.

I do know from experience (plus, it seems pretty obvious) that you don't want your shield wall units being flanked. That tends to get them sliced up pretty good.

[Drewski]

Are Schiltrom & shield wall only available for BI?

[Tiberius Nero]

Are Schiltrom & shield wall only available for BI?

I think they can be modded in; the SPQR mod has shieldwall and is based on RTW 1.5.

BI is worth getting; among other reasons, better AI and several great mods are based on BI and RTR 7.0 is going to be for BI as well.

[Mikail Mengsk]

yes

[Drewski]

yes

Thanks, and (sorry a little off topic), is BI worth getting if I'm really only interested in the period RTW original covers?

[Ivanelme]

Thanks, and (sorry a little off topic), is BI worth getting if I'm really only interested in the period RTW original covers?

There are some period mods that use BI that are based off this mod. There is also one set after this period during the split of the empire that does what RTR does for it's point in time.

[Quinn Inuit]

They can? I thought shield wall was strictly limited to the BI exe--even Alex.exe doesn't allow it. Darn shame, IMO.

[Tiberius Nero]

Coming to think of it, I haven't seen or heard of schiltrom in SPQR, but the way shield wall is formed for certain units, like legionaires, is by pressing the loose formation button; there isn't actually a loose formation then, for heavy infantry, just standard and shieldwall. Perhaps it is a way to trick the machine?

[pannonian]

Coming to think of it, I haven't seen or heard of schiltrom in SPQR, but the way shield wall is formed for certain units, like legionaires, is by pressing the loose formation button; there isn't actually a loose formation then, for heavy infantry, just standard and shieldwall. Perhaps it is a way to trick the machine?

Shieldwall is formed by using the special ability button. Has anyone experimented with non-standard combos of units and abilities? Eg. what happens if an infantry unit is given the wedge ability, or how do the animation and sounds appear if a legionary unit uses the warcry ability? What about cavalry and warcry, etc?