Other Countries' 'Schlieffen Plan'

[Exarch]

i remember when i used to study WW1, the issue of Germany's 'Schlieffen plan', was used as an example where ppl would attempt to incriminate the germans as the aggressors; however, as the history lecturer that day continued, Germany was not the only country to have a 'schlieffen plan' or a battle plan whereby the leadership would decide who/what/where to invade. Great Britian/russia/france had plans and contingencies if it ever came to war..

do u suppose that's true of modern nations today?
personally i tihnk yes, in the case of Australia; there would be plans and contingencies made for an invasion of indonesia/east timor/papua new guinea if it came to war....

Discuss

[Oldgamer]

Actually, the Schlieffen Plan was a German plan to invade the Low Countries, and quickly strike into France, taking Paris, in the First World War. It had nothing to do, certainly, with "incriminating" any country. The plan would have worked, had not the "Miracle of the Marne" occurred.

In the Second World War, expecting the Germans to re-attempt the Schlieffen Plan, the French and British prepared to rush into the Low Countries and stop the Germans. The Germans obliged, by invading the Netherlands and Belgium, but the real thrust of the German Army was delivered in the Ardennes Forest, which was believed to be impassable to armored vehicles. It was lightly guarded, and the Germans rapidly drove through it, and rushed to the Channel Coast, cutting the British and French armies in the Low Countries off from their supply lines.

All 1st World nations have contingencies for just about any event that could happen to them. The United States, for example, has plans (no doubt gathering dust, somewhere) for war in Europe, the Far East, every country of the Middle East, Africa, Central and South America, and so on. It's wise to have a plan, no?

[Farnan]

We also have a plan to invade Canada...

[Oldgamer]

We also have a plan to invade Canada...

Using Mongolians?

hehehe ...

[Farnan]

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=492

And the Canadians had a plan to invade us. What the hell Canada? I thought we were cool.

[Oldgamer]

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=492

And the Canadians had a plan to invade us. What the hell Canada? I thought we were cool.

That is an interesting link, Farnan. Between the wars, the British Admiralty actually devised a plan for a naval war against the United States, which they regarded as the most likely threat to them.

What I would like to know is why Australia would see a need to invade Papua New Guinea, East Timor, or ... especially ... Indonesia. Australia doesn't have the manpower (though it has the men!) to take and hold Indonesia (which is one of the most populous countries in the world).

I suppose this could merely be a "contingency plan". But what contingency would cause Australia to empty the continent of its manpower to take and hold Indonesia?

[AndrewJ]

What I would like to know is why Australia would see a need to invade Papua New Guinea, East Timor, or ... especially ... Indonesia.

Well, Indonesia did invade East Timor in 1975, kept trying to invade West New Guinea between 1950 and 1962 until the Americans decided to force the Dutch to sell the Papuans to Indonesia for Freeport to mine their gold; and their hero President Sukarno did from 1928 to 1941 call on Japan to declare war on the United States...

Indonesia is a totalitarian military regime with corruption from soldiers looting local charities and businessmen to Generals who own the banks and construction companies etc. It does design & build its own military aircraft and manufactures under license its own small arms. Oh, and yes, the TNI since WW-II has a tradition of racial and religious discrimination against non-Javanese and non-Asia and non-Muslim.. Which could be the reason they kept their Al Qaeda training camps open after 9/11 and why Laskar Jihad and other Al Qaeda groups are still funded by the TNI today.

The US public might want the Ford Foundation & Bechtel to stay in business with the people who enabled the Pacific War, but why would you trust anything an Indonesian General said?

[Oldgamer]

Well, Indonesia did invade East Timor in 1975, kept trying to invade West New Guinea between 1950 and 1962 until the Americans decided to force the Dutch to sell the Papuans to Indonesia for Freeport to mine their gold; and their hero President Sukarno did from 1928 to 1941 call on Japan to declare war on the United States...

Indonesia is a totalitarian military regime with corruption from soldiers looting local charities and businessmen to Generals who own the banks and construction companies etc. It does design & build its own military aircraft and manufactures under license its own small arms. Oh, and yes, the TNI since WW-II has a tradition of racial and religious discrimination against non-Javanese and non-Asia and non-Muslim.. Which could be the reason they kept their Al Qaeda training camps open after 9/11 and why Laskar Jihad and other Al Qaeda groups are still funded by the TNI today.

The US public might want the Ford Foundation & Bechtel to stay in business with the people who enabled the Pacific War, but why would you trust anything an Indonesian General said?

Hello, Andrew, and welcome to the TWC!

I agree with you on everything about Indonesia, and regard the country to be a ticking time bomb, in the sense of Islamist radicalism. And note that I, for one, would never trust any Indonesian general, or political leader, for that matter.

As to the training camps, I cannot understand why we haven't taken them out, long ago. If the primary enemy in this War against Islamist Radicalism is Al Qaeda, and Al Qaeda operates training camps in Indonesia, then it follows that those training camps should be obliterated.

But my question remains as to why Australia would want to risk its limited manpower in an invasion of what is arguably a very powerful country.

[King Edward III]

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=492

And the Canadians had a plan to invade us. What the hell Canada? I thought we were cool.

So did Iraq..

(Oh I know, aren't I a good troll.. tehehe).

The canadian plan was merely for defense incase the yanks tried another 1812. Where as the yank plan was to annex.

[Exarch]

So did Iraq..

(Oh I know, aren't I a good troll.. tehehe).

The canadian plan was merely for defense incase the yanks tried another 1812. Where as the yank plan was to annex.

so have the american elites always regarded canada to be a part of the USA?

[Farnan]

so have the american elites always regarded canada to be a part of the USA?

No, it wasn't a real plan, it was a training exercise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

[Exarch]

No, it wasn't a real plan, it was a training exercise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

as we speak, there is the US policy of containment against china, with possible plans of what-to-do in case of a sino-american war.

[King Edward III]

so have the american elites always regarded canada to be a part of the USA?

Well when they invaded in 1812 they thought that the canadians would rush to their side thinking they were just waiting to be liberated from ze evil British.

In truth the yanks always regarded Canada as unfinished business from the american revolutionary war, still "american" colonists to free from British rule.

[Axeman]

South Africa when it was fighting in Mozambiuqe used a simillar plan by going through Zimbabwe, then Rhodesia, though not a decleration of war it was not allowed, they basically turned a blind eye....

[OG Grenadier]

Indonesian politicians are smiling assassins. *SMILE*.
The Australian led stabilization of East Timor was lauded by Colin Powell as a shining example of how to conduct an interdiction on unfriendly soil. That's high praise indeed from the U.S Secy of State of the day and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

[Farnan]

Umm...

They are not call "Schlieffen Plans" they are called contingency plans and they have nothing to do with defensive or offensive. What they have to do with is having a plan to deal with nearly any situations so your not caught with your pants down.

[Exarch]

Umm...

They are not call "Schlieffen Plans" they are called contingency plans and they have nothing to do with defensive or offensive. What they have to do with is having a plan to deal with nearly any situations so your not caught with your pants down.

ummmm
did u notice the 'inverted commas' i used?
obviously i was referring to contingency plans, but i still believe such contingency plans should be defensive. how is a country's military, on the other side of the world going to invade another's?

[Farnan]

We've done it before, and what if the contingency is the next leader of China allies with North Korea and invades the South?

How about if there is a war between the ROC and PRC?

Or the Chinese government collapses and the unrests needs to be stabilized due to the presence of nuclear weapons?

There are contingencies that may require the invasion of China and the military needs to be ready for it, even if its a 1% chance.

[Exarch]

We've done it before, and what if the contingency is the next leader of China allies with North Korea and invades the South?

How about if there is a war between the ROC and PRC?

Or the Chinese government collapses and the unrests needs to be stabilized due to the presence of nuclear weapons?

There are contingencies that may require the invasion of China and the military needs to be ready for it, even if its a 1% chance.

the problem is that such boy scout preparedness can be misconstrued as aggression by other nations.
especially when it becomes known that a lot of CIA/black ops have taken place in or around that country

[Farnan]

the problem is that such boy scout preparedness can be misconstrued as aggression by other nations.
especially when it becomes known that a lot of CIA/black ops have taken place in or around that country

Only by internet posters.

People that actually matter (as in make the decisions) know they are simply plans. If the US started massing troops in Taiwan they would say something, but not just having the plan. China probably has a plan to invade India, Russia or Taiwan.