The merging of order factions and KOJ

[whitewolfmxc]

As topic and as part of the sub threads of this thread

"Saving faction and unit slots , healthy discussion please !"

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...86#post2992486

Now lets assume KK wants KOJ to be merged with templars, how would it be done ?

KOJ should have a more complex system for unit roaster as its a complex state anyway , what i had in mind is add more units of Antioch from the kingdoms crusade campaign , but with extras regarding order units

heres some ideas that hope will satisfy all fan boys of both orders (templars and St johns) and take less historical account but keeping some elements in them yet its still game play wise

PS: if you think this is constructive and helpful please + rep XD







A) new family and extended order generals :

Like the Teutonic order faction , can we have a "non family general" system for KOJ as extra ?

The idea is to : Keep family tree system for KOJ , while having two "sub" general spawning systems for knights Templars and Hospitallers separately

So the KOJ will still have family members but also have extra Knights order generals spawning and numbers according how many order chapter houses KOJ has sepearetly for both orders (them bearing appropriate order titles and traits and how they will spawn , this will be mentioned later)

This is to satisfy the role playing element of both knight order fans , you can chose to favour more templar influence or St john for building letting more templar or St JOHN Chapter houses built (so you would have a say in more templar generals etc ) , and also the education SS6.0 added will make more fun as these order generals get new special traits (to be created) related to the order when they are in settlement having order chapter houses or HQ

PS: IF possible , when all the family member of KOJ die out , the king title will be passed on to one of the grand master (or whatever you name it) titled generals of the system mentioned above to continue the KOJ factions lifespan (game play wise)



B) Map and base building related ideas :

Ok im not a historian myself but ill try to keep it simple , and please give ideas of your own to this

First Add Malta as settlement on map and give it to KOJ with a Hospitaler HQ in it (may not be total historical for time line but should satisfy the hospitalar fans)

PS: This actually makes KOJ not being destroyed that easily as they have melta as last resort base (although not historical but its game play wise)

Second add a Templar HQ in either Acre or Turtosa (wrong spelling?) or what ever settlement you historian buffs think XD

PS: only these two settlements (for templar and St JOHN) only KOJ can have these two HQs , other factions cant get it (codded out ?)


Third , add a wounder building something like "Jerusalem order consul" in Jerusalem, which its function will be mentioned later and below


PS: The "sub" general spawning system for Hospitallers and templers will start here , all generals of the order spawning will be from these HQ owned settlements (so the spawning system for Hospitallers must be tied to the Hospitallers HQ building and vise versia for Templars) , even if the HQ owned settlement is lost the spawning will take place in KOJ capital Jerusalem (with that "Jerusalem order consul" Buidling mentioned above)

when KOJ retake the two pre set HQ settlements (Malta /Acre or Turtosa), these HQ Events (templar / ST John ) will pop up 100% (without cost) in those two pre set HQ settlements, should make this hard cored to both players or KOJ AI , and when the HQ settlements are retaken the order spawning generals spwan back to these areas instead of Jerusalem

of course normal chapter houses for both orders is still present but will be mentioned below

So does the above ideas simulate how the two orders an KOJ operate back then ? i think its close in terms of game play can give


C) Units ! :

I think a Compromise in between historical / fanboyism / game play is the aim im aiming for

First , keep KOJ original with its OWN units ? anybody disagree ? but adding a bit more units from the Antioch faction from crusade campaigns is welcomed

So when one KOJ settlements dont have the following buildings : Order HQ / chapter house / minor chapter house , "Jerusalem order consul" , they can only recruit normal KOJ / Antioch units

then the templar / St john HQ ideas mentioned in last section comes in,

now , each order chapter house (no matter what level , minor or HQ) will have a simple roaster of order units , of course the higher level of the building the more experience the units get

But HQ building will get an extra unique unit added for both orders (Templar gets Templar guards , and ST john gets holly cannons (dont remember the name but its the unit with claymore sized swords) )

So what does the normal order chapter houses get ? for each order they should have at least one dismount sword unit (dismount knights of that order) and one spear unit (order spear man or Sergent) , one missle troop (templar gets order crossbowmen , and St John gets Sicilian archers with Hopsitaler skins ?) and of course both the mounted knights version are also recruit able

So what does "Jerusalem order consul" building do for Jerusalem either being a back up order general order spawning place ? It gives all the units that are recruit able in both templar and St john order houses to be recruited there XD including the unique ones i mentioned for each order (templar guards etc)

SO i think this should satisfy most fans of both orders as the unit exposure level of them is risen compared to plain dismount and mount knight

PS: if possible , garrasion script should be made for both order HQ settlements which only gives that specific order units as spawning army

[Australia]

Yeah but what if we enjoy playing the Templar's as a seprate faction?

[whitewolfmxc]

well thats why i said : we assume KK will merge them XD which i think is considering , and dont worry someone is always going to make a templar mini mod (which is in the sub mod forum already http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157512 XD)

[Senktris]

I'm currently (trying) to combine the Knights Templar, the Hospitaller Knights & the Kingdom of Jerusalem, but, well, the Tutorials don't really help me... or I'm just a little bit too stupid

[whitewolfmxc]

wow good luck, any comments on the ideas i had ? LOL

[Erlinggra]

But if we merg KoJ and templars will the new faction be playable in early?

[whitewolfmxc]

Actually i think its a waste of energy and faction to have two eras , just go with the late era is my thought , as many don't like starting with peasants only units LOL and more factions to say in late era

[Caesar Clivus]

Actually i think its a waste of energy and faction to have two eras , just go with the late era is my thought , as many don't like starting with peasants only units LOL and more factions to say in late era

Actually a lot of people prefer the early era because they like to build their empire up from scratch. There was a thread about this not long ago and a lot of people chose early.

[Erlinggra]

I like early era. The fact that you have to conquer rebel settlements means you can get a better start for the smaller factions.

I do agree all factions should be the same in late and early era, or at least no uniqe factions for erly ear only.

[irwinesca]

HHmm, I also like the templars in the early era. Fighting with the early infidels is a fun challenge.

[Wilhelm von Nassau]

Go White wolf!
Templars should have never been a seperate faction. Templars simply had knights and sergeants. Now they had to add in very unrealistic units for balance and gameplay. I especially dislike the claymore units.
I would like to see the chapter houses play a larger role. Like being able to recruit sergeants and knights.

[Australia]

The Templars are the main reason KK created SS so I don't see him removing them any time soon.

[cherryfunk]

The Templars are the main reason KK created SS so I don't see him removing them any time soon.

I see it. My perception counters yours. Thread discussion continues.

[Nick_Since_1985]

I don't agree the early era is the better then the late.

[Australia]

I see it. My perception counters yours. Thread discussion continues.

I'm terribly happy for you mate. Now if you'd let common sense into your perceptions then you'd be better off.

well never say never XD

Never said never .

[s0meguy]

The Templars are the main reason KK created SS so I don't see him removing them any time soon.

Where the hell did you get that from?

Actually i was surpized no one crazy enough to come up with an idea like :

Knights order faction !

All the knights orders (including Templar / St john / Teutonic / Meltisa / Santiago and ones that i dont remember) all join into ONE faction LOL

but each unit is area restricted , like santiago only in iberia , Teutonic on north europe etc etc XD

This idea will be urber XD

No it sucks, and I think that many of those orders didn't work together well historically speaking.....

Here is an idea. Just make the installer of the next SS have a few options to install whatever order you want. Leaving up a faction slot that can be used for your stupid georgia or something lol

BTW Abassid > georgia crap. I think that Georgia would just be destroyed easily like Ireland. I mean they're not exactly known for their uber armies and generals.

STILL I do not want Ireland out cuz well.. I like Irish people and their funny voices

So how about this: don't add any more faction. Either that or add a faction that is worthy of the faction slot. Not some insignificant country like georgia or some eastern european country.

I think that KK prefered Abassid btw.

[Osiiic]

So how about this: don't add any more faction. Either that or add a faction that is worthy of the faction slot. Not some insignificant country like georgia or some eastern european country.

Gorgia and eastern european kingdoms (Serbia, Bulgaria) were not, in fact, less significant than England or France and were more significant than Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Teutonic knights or Norway.

[whitewolfmxc]

well never say never XD

[whitewolfmxc]

can we just be liberal about the whole templars are staying thingy , im just saying IF they are to merge , how to do it so to please all fans ><

its more of a back up plan , its always better to be prepared for the WORST >< ?

so can we stay on topic now , as IF templars are going to be merged

PS: i dont want this thread to turn into the other ones i witnessed.........ss fans bashing on another because their favorite faction gets a change LOL

[Australia]

Simply it is unlikely the Templars will be merged for early era, I have no problems with late as it would probably make the late campaign more interesting.

Also if someone really wants them to be merged someone will prob make a mini-mod, then people have the choice and everything's cool.

Also if for early the KoJ and the Templars were merged then they would need to be in control of jerusalem (to be historically correct) and to make them fun to play no more then 1 more settlement so that means bibi KoJ in the first few turns.

Also I am being very calm and rational about this.