Shields on back

[Lord_Calidor]

How do they work? Units as Scandinavian Guard, Dismounted Dvor, Varangians etc. have shield on their backs, and shield value of 1 in EDU. How is that computed into total defence, location-wise? I'm looking for a more in-depth answer, and I'm aware how shields contribute to defence in general, but I'm somewhat confused how they play a role in this situation. Does the game recognize when a blow or arrow is coming from the behind, and only then takes it into account?

I suspect animations have a lot to do with this, but how is collision taken into account? Does it depend on which bone (in model mesh file) shield is attached to?

Phews, lotsa questions... pls don't get discouraged by them.

[Caesar Clivus]

Does the game recognize when a blow or arrow is coming from the behind, and only then takes it into account?

No the game cannot detect which direction a blow comes from. So even when a pavise crossbowman has turned away to reload and his shield is facing the enemy, he can just as easily get shot as when he is facing the enemy. Which is a shame really

[delra]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that RTW could track directions of incoming blows...

[Hellbent]

So flanking with archers/horse archers to shoot their backs is useless?

[Caesar Clivus]

No idea about RTW but there was a discussion about this on the official forums a while back and it was agreed that having a shield on the back was pretty much just eye candy and didn't provide better protection from the rear.

[betoelbicho]

the game DOES take into account where a blow is coming from, but i dont know if it can put a shield value on the back of a soldier

[delra]

I remember Point Blank telling me that normal shield doesn't count at all in this calculation.

So no matter if you're shooting from the shield side or the other side, the armour values is all the same. I had an old habit from RTW of shooting preferably at the shieldless side (so my archers are usually deployed on the left flank).

So if the normally held shield isn't a factor at all, why would the one on the back be?

[jo_dus]

I wish arrows and bolts would stick and stay on shields like they stay on the ground. that would be sweet to see.

[Caesar Clivus]

I remember Point Blank telling me that normal shield doesn't count at all in this calculation.

So no matter if you're shooting from the shield side or the other side, the armour values is all the same. I had an old habit from RTW of shooting preferably at the shieldless side (so my archers are usually deployed on the left flank).

So if the normally held shield isn't a factor at all, why would the one on the back be?

Maybe that's where I'm getting confused: the position of the shield doesn't matter but the game can detect the direction that blows are coming from, which still makes shields on the back useless in terms of providing rearwards protection.

[Iscariott]

Maybe that's where I'm getting confused: the position of the shield doesn't matter but the game can detect the direction that blows are coming from, which still makes shields on the back useless in terms of providing rearwards protection.

I know eye witness testimony usually ends up being wrong, so i wouldnt bet money on it. But I do swear by flanking with archers. I'm almost certain the game notices and rewards doing it. But also have no idea what the shield on back means to the engine :\

[Marcus Fulvius]

I know eye witness testimony usually ends up being wrong, so i wouldnt bet money on it. But I do swear by flanking with archers. I'm almost certain the game notices and rewards doing it. But also have no idea what the shield on back means to the engine :\

getting hit from the flank or rear, whether from missle or melee does have an effect.

not on damage done, but on morale... thats the difference that you've noticed.

[Iscariott]

getting hit from the flank or rear, whether from missle or melee does have an effect.

not on damage done, but on morale... thats the difference that you've noticed.

Thanks but i trust lusted, and my own observations more. It affects casualty rates for anything with a shield.

[delra]

And would probably kill most (even high-end) computers...

[jo_dus]

But it would still be sweet to see all the little porcupines running around.

[delra]

I wish they could use those shields on their backs while in hand combat... They have quite nice pavises there and the animation and everything is already there for Pavise Spearmen of Hungary... Any chance we could make them? Some units can switch to a shield they carry on their backs, I just can't recall any at the moment but I'm sure there are some.

[Caesar Clivus]

I wish they could use those shields on their backs while in hand combat... They have quite nice pavises there and the animation and everything is already there for Pavise Spearmen of Hungary... Any chance we could make them? Some units can switch to a shield they carry on their backs, I just can't recall any at the moment but I'm sure there are some.

Dismounted Dvor use the shields on their backs when they engage in melee combat.

[Chim]

M2TW also detects attack directions. It's the way it uses animations.

[Tambarskjelve]

If I remember correctly:

Shields covers the front 180' arc
Defence skill front 180' arc, only in melee
Armor counts all around.

Flanking/shooting not only works, but works very well.

Regarding OP, I too wonder if the shield helps at all on the back.
I hava a suspicion it doesn't count as a rearward shield, though.

[green tea]

I also don´t know, but will guess: I have read in many modding threads here and especially at the org, where much game-testing has been done. It was at the org, where I first read about the shield-bug. Many people that seem to know what they are talking about believe that shield protect the person from the front and the shield-side (the left). I assume that each time a unit is given a shield-bonus, this bonus protects in the same way. That means, that pavise crossbowmen or dismounted Dvor are protected by their shield from the front and the left side, but not from behind, even if the animation looks like they wear their shield on the back. This is since shield-value and how it works has nothing to to with the animation.

[Lord_Calidor]

Well, my concern is not if the shields can provide back protection, but do the shields on backs count as defence in frontal melee, or its only eye candy?

Stats tell me that shields (regardless of the position on the model) cover only the front arc, and that's why there's so small shield bonus (only 1 def., even for large kite shields). Normally those provide 6-8 def when carried on the left hand, depending on the EDU version.