A Quick Rant

[Drewski]

Firstly Hi Everyone LTRFTP

Secondly, thanks for this mod to everyone involved, it makes RTW sensibly playable (no more silly mega cavalry that stuck in a bunch can go through a whole army, routing unit after unit). This mod actually makes you use proper tactics in battles, and its also a hell of a lot more fun. I've become an addict.

Now here's my rant. I play on Hard campaign, medium difficulty battles, and think myself a pretty decent player. I make sure all newly built troops get retrained at an armory, all new family members go to "school" in an academy/scrip/ludus city until they are at least 21---for a couple of examples.

But (and this I'm sure isn't the fault of the mod), I have never ever played such a blatantly "anti the human player" strat game in my life.Ever.And I've play more than a few

Current Macedon campaign, I stormed through the Aegean penisula, then when Illyria dow on me, they got completely wiped out. I even managed Alliances with Thrace, Pontus and Ptolemy.I made sure EVERY port had a least one ship in it at all times, to prevent the silly "oh there's an unblockaded human port, must blockade now, need my fix" ai behaviour. Then Selucids dow on me, which Ok is no problem, fair enough. Then completely and utterly illogically, the Ptolemies backstab me, seemingly just to blockade a few well guarded ports,( and get their ships destroyed the same turn).

Then only a couple turns later, I get a Ptolomic diplomat, who offers their map, plus trade rights for a ceasefire and alliance (falls off chair in astonishment)...

This last a few yrs,and as Im pushing into Asia Minor, Ptolemies backstab AGAIN, as do Pontus. And the iceing on the cake, Selucid and Ptolomy suddenly stop fighting and decide its time for an alliance.

I mean come on ....Im now waiting for Thrace to inevitably join in and backstab me, as they've had a mini army parked by Bylazora (which has a full black stack) for a while now (and what the heck is the point of "granting military access" option, when the ai just wanders where it wants to anyway, but if you try the same, they send you a transgression warning?...where's my option of "get the frik off my land or arrange military access or declare war?"

I have tried about 10 ten times to play Pontus, but whatever I do, every single time, Selucid dow on me on somewhere between turns 4 and 8. Now in all my other games, as Rome, Germans, Iberians, Macdeon, Greeks, whatever, in not one of those games has Selucid EVER bothered with Pontus....baaah humbug.

Anyway, probably nothing you guys can do about the ridiculously illogical ai (you can have 100 times as many troops, and you still get "end the fighting, that is a good joke" reply), it just often spoils what otherwise is a brilliant mod and game....

Sorry for the length of this rant, but thanks for reading this far, and replies and comments appreciated....

[Tiberius Nero]

Not much to comment on really, the diplomatic AI is not moddable at all and works in ways more mysterious than those of the Lord. You might have some luck trying a "force diplomacy" minimod (because in fact you always know what is best for the AI), but I don't have a link to it and don't know if it works with RTR, I have only seen some mentionts to it on the EB forums.

[Drewski]

Not much to comment on really, the diplomatic AI is not moddable at all and works in ways more mysterious than those of the Lord. You might have some luck trying a "force diplomacy" minimod (because in fact you always know what is best for the AI), but I don't have a link to it and don't know if it works with RTR, I have only seen some mentionts to it on the EB forums.

Thanks for the info I sorta guessed the ai diplomacy was probably hardcoded, or someone would surely have modded it. Shame really...

@Andy:- I have no problem with the ai "ganging up" on the toughest faction, but in my experiences, it just seems to be ganging up on the player. E.g., In the afforementioned Macedon campaign, Selucid and Ptolemy are still BOTH considerably more powerful than me...

Oh well, thanks for replies.

[Andy5]

I have noticed this AI behaviour but it is my impression that the AI units collude to defeat the faction which is the most powerful and threatening - I could be wrong.

Another annoying feature is where a faction offers a ceasefire from one of its diplomats - which I accept - then an army from the same faction attacks elsewhere but I guess this sort of irrationality is possible in real life

[fourganger]

I suggest you just sit back and laugh at the sheer randomness of their "diplomacy".

When they offer you stuff, make a counter offer demanding a lot of cash. They'll usually say yes, so when they do backstab you (sometimes in the very next turn) you've at least gained something from it. Always happens to me, as both Seleucids and Macedonians seem very fond of making protectorships and then attacking them the very next turn...

[Drewski]

I suggest you just sit back and laugh at the sheer randomness of their "diplomacy".

When they offer you stuff, make a counter offer demanding a lot of cash. They'll usually say yes, so when they do backstab you (sometimes in the very next turn) you've at least gained something from it. Always happens to me, as both Seleucids and Macedonians seem very fond of making protectorships and then attacking them the very next turn...

Good ideas ...cept in a recent Iberian campaign, I had been trying to get peace with Carthage for 20yrs plus, then suddenly they approach me with a ceasefire proposal. So I decide to counter propose they give me their map, and I get "that is beyond our means"...what the frik does that possibly mean?? And that was it, no peace for the rest of that campaign with Carthage.

On a 2nd point, The Thracians (in afforementioned Macedon campaign) decided to wander off eventually, then actually joined in with a few rebel battles...still allied with them 15 yrs later

[fourganger]

Good ideas ...cept in a recent Iberian campaign, I had been trying to get peace with Carthage for 20yrs plus, then suddenly they approach me with a ceasefire proposal. So I decide to counter propose they give me their map, and I get "that is beyond our means"...what the frik does that possibly mean?? And that was it, no peace for the rest of that campaign with Carthage.

On a 2nd point, The Thracians (in afforementioned Macedon campaign) decided to wander off eventually, then actually joined in with a few rebel battles...still allied with them 15 yrs later

Yeah, sometimes they can be tetchy about map info. But they usually don't seem to be so reserved about money (provided you ask for a sensible amount of course).

Also be on the lookout for inactive diplomats near your cities. This is also a prelude to an attack

[Andy5]

Yeah, sometimes they can be tetchy about map info. But they usually don't seem to be so reserved about money (provided you ask for a sensible amount of course).

Also be on the lookout for inactive diplomats near your cities. This is also a prelude to an attack

Same when a spy from a neutral faction enters or attempts to enter one of your cities. It is guaranteed they will attack in the next few moves dependent upon if the spy escapes or is executed.

[Drewski]

Same when a spy from a neutral faction enters or attempts to enter one of your cities. It is guaranteed they will attack in the next few moves dependent upon if the spy escapes or is executed.

Hate to have to disagree, but not always so....same Macedon campaign, after taking out Ilyria very early on, I opted to leave Gaul alone, and leave a full stack in Segestica, as a deterrent...I've been catching Gaul spies every other turn (In Salona,Scodra etc.) for probably 50 turns now, but they haven't lifted a finger against me (and we share two cities almost side by side)...maybe they are too busy with Rome; maybe the ai sometimes isn't quite insane enough to attack someone MUCH more powrful than them (And on a side note:- isn't it a little too easy playing Macedon- 36 provinces now in 40 yrs and not even the vaguest hint of a city revolt anywhere)

[morteduzionism]

I'm starting to think the diplomacy AI does work. You just have to understand/accept the realities of it.

1) they hate the human player; but you've figured this out already

2) offers of "cease fire" from AI factions is a prelude to an attack, it's like a tactic...they lull you into a false sense of security and...BWAM! straight in the bung-hole

3) if you share a border with a faction...don't even waste your effort to ask for a cease fire...you won't get it

4) not only do AI factions hate the human player they also collude against you

________________
So make alliances with far away factions.

If the ally of an ally comes onto your land, attack them. This will cause them to lose the alliance with the other faction.

If a faction wants to play the cease fire/attack game, let them. Ask for money after every attack. I used to get 5-10K denari, playing as Rome, from Carthage because they'd agree to cease fires after attacking me.

[Drewski]

I'm starting to think the diplomacy AI does work. You just have to understand/accept the realities of it.

1) they hate the human player; but you've figured this out already

2) offers of "cease fire" from AI factions is a prelude to an attack, it's like a tactic...they lull you into a false sense of security and...BWAM! straight in the bung-hole

3) if you share a border with a faction...don't even waste your effort to ask for a cease fire...you won't get it

4) not only do AI factions hate the human player they also collude against you

________________
So make alliances with far away factions.

If the ally of an ally comes onto your land, attack them. This will cause them to lose the alliance with the other faction.

If a faction wants to play the cease fire/attack game, let them. Ask for money after every attack. I used to get 5-10K denari, playing as Rome, from Carthage because they'd agree to cease fires after attacking me.

Decent advice I didn't know about the "ally of my ally" situation, that may become useful..thanks