DISCUSSION: The Delhi Sultanate

[Miraj]

A BC 2.0 emergent faction. If you have any solid info or images related to this faction, especially it's style and composition of army please do inform us. I would especially like to know what faction symbol they would have had.

Sources:
WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delhi_Sultanate
BOOK: http://books.google.ca/books?id=lt2t...sec=frontcover

Maps:


Summary:
The Delhi Sultanate arose in 1206 out of the collapsing Ghurid Sultanate. They were the first official Muslim state that ruled India permanently and were one of the last independent Muslim regions (aside from the Mamluks of Egypt) that held off and defeated the Mongols at their borders.

In-game they will be an emergent faction that will arise once the first Ghurid Sultan dies. The faction will emerge using the baron's alliance script and will be supplied with some stacks. When in hotseat mode the Ghurid player will have the choice (via a popup question) of "Joining" the Delhi Sultanate and playing them for the rest of the game.

Army:
The Delhi Sultanate will be a basically a mixture of Ghurid units and Sindhi units. Historically their elite force was their Turkish Ghulams that are already represented in the Ghurid roster. They're elite Ghulam corps were known as the "Ghulam-i-Khass" or "Bandagan-i-Khass" ie Royal Ghulam.

They also fielded a variety of Afghan foot soldiers (who eventually overthrew the Turks), Indian Rajputs, and settled Muslim (Indian and foreign born) landholders known as Jagirdars/Zamindars. Of course like most Indian states they fielded many local troops, especially Elephant Mahouts.

Image sources are not plentiful for the Sultanate, which is odd since they were a very long lasting and powerful state. But this lack of images is largely due to more attention historians have paid to their successors the Mughals. But here's one that shows what a typical Delhi Sultanate heavy cavalry man might have looked like:

On the left we see a heavy muslim cavalryman probably representing an elite royal unit or perhaps a soldier of a richer Muslim landholder's unit of some sort (some of these we foreign born settlers, some simply converts)


Also this image probably is a good source for any Delhi units, the two on the right especially look like pretty standard "Muslim Indian/Afgan" units that would have been among the Delhi Sultanate's ranks too. Considering Afghans formed a large part of the "muscle" in the Delhi's armies it would not be too far fetched to assume the far right cavalryman a good candidate for a light-medium Delhi mesh.


Here we have an image of invading Mongols fighting a Delhi Sultanate Elephant in India. Some sort of unique elite Elephant unit would be quite suitable for the Sultanate. You can also see that Angus has given the armoured rider some classic Perso-Islamic plate-mail armour and a pretty standard Indo-Persian helmet. The other two riders I'm guessing represent a typical Indian Muslim light mahout crew of some sort.

[Osceola]

Armoured camel mounted archers.. I like this faction already.

Wish I could be of more help, out of my own interest I did alot of research on Indian warfare a looong time ago, but I think it didn't stay in my head I'm afraid.

I'm wondering if maybe you can include say Sikh or Gurkha warriors as mercs or levies or something? Sikh warriors were pretty damn fierce if I re-call correctly, using the chakram for example. That'd be one badass unique unit. Get on the Sikh's good side through religion, and maybe that and their cavalry units will open up as an option.

Also the Gurkha's from Nepal were infamous guerilla/jungle fighters. And c'mon a medieval Vietcong/Green Berets unit would be awesome. A sort of Hashashin type unit that actually existed. I don't know about their antics during this time period, but I do know their signature sword, the khukri is a direct descendant of the khopesh to kopis design that Alexander brought to the Indian subcontinent. And for one thing, during WWII they were like real life ninjas. Sneaking up behind Japanese forces marching single file through the jungle, and decapitating them silently and quickly, one by one.

As for Indian weapons, I've saved alot of pics to my computer, so I can post them if you want. You might wanna consider giving some of the more elite infrantry the tegha for example, a sort of tulwar on huge ing horse steroids.

[Miraj]

Those are mongols actually.

I'm wondering if maybe you can include say Sikh or Gurkha warriors as mercs or levies or something? Sikh warriors were pretty damn fierce if I re-call correctly, using the chakram for example. That'd be one badass unique unit. Get on the Sikh's good side through religion, and maybe that and their cavalry units will open up as an option.

Also the Gurkha's from Nepal were infamous guerilla/jungle fighters. And c'mon a medieval Vietcong/Green Berets unit would be awesome. A sort of Hashashin type unit that actually existed. I don't know about their antics during this time period, but I do know their signature sword, the khukri is a direct descendant of the khopesh to kopis design that Alexander brought to the Indian subcontinent. And for one thing, during WWII they were like real life ninjas. Sneaking up behind Japanese forces marching single file through the jungle, and decapitating them silently and quickly, one by one.

Sikh's did not exist until well after this mod ends (ie >>1400). And Gurkha's probably didn't either.

[Osceola]

Gurkha's did, I just looked it up. 7th century A.D. is when their "born" it actually says they helped fight to keep the Muslims out of "Gandhara" or Afghanistan.

So no Sikhs I understand, Gurkha's however it appears are well within this time period.

[Miraj]

Gurkha's did, I just looked it up. 7th century A.D. is when their "born" it actually says they helped fight to keep the Muslims out of "Gandhara" or Afghanistan.

Yes, in the 7th century. By BC's start, which is the 12th century, Afghanistan has already been fully conquered and assimilated into Muslim rule. Anyways its a moot point. Gurkhas would never serve in a Muslim state's army anyway.

[Tail End Charlie]

What will be the trigger for the Sultanante to rise?

[Miraj]

There will be no Gurkhas in this mod or faction, its totally off-topic and has nothing to do with the Delhi Sultanate so lets just drop it.

What will be the trigger for the Sultanante to rise?

The death of the first Ghurid faction leader (Sultan Muhammad) would begin the countdown to the emergence of the Delhi Sultanate along with the precondition of holding Delhi.

They would be triggered to emerge out of Ghurid settlements, similar to how the Baron's Alliance emerges out of England. If the Ghurid player is in hotseat they will be asked a popup question if they want to join/play the Delhi sultanate.

If the Ghurids are AI controlled what I will do instead is emerge the Delhi sultanate and give them all of the Ghurid settlements via scripts, basically eliminating the Ghurids altogether and replacing them with Delhi mid-game.

They would emerge with Qutbuddin Aybak as their faction leader. But Qutb also happens to be the most important general of the Ghurids when the game starts, so I will kill that dude via script to sort of simulate that character becoming the new sultan of an emerging state.

[whhyy]

I flipped out when I saw the camel archers. Then realised they where the mongols -.-

Oh, that elephant is pretty. I want one Miraj.


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Looks to me like you will have to take some historical liberties for this faction...

[Miraj]

Looks to me like you will have to take some historical liberties for this faction...

We've taken historical liberties with every faction, tbh.

That's in the bible!

[Lupu]

Why should ghorids losse all their settlements to the delhi sultanate?

can anyone model horses, and animation so mongols can get camel archers?

[Miraj]

Why should ghorids losse all their settlements to the delhi sultanate?

Because that's what happened historically. The Ghurids ceased to exist post-1206.

[AlphaDelta]

There will be no Gurkhas in this mod or faction, its totally off-topic and has nothing to do with the Delhi Sultanate so lets just drop it.

Well, actually there is complete sense in having Gurkhas in BC.

Many of the Rajputs that fled the muslim advance in the 10th and 11th century went north east. They took with them their Greek weapon, the Kopesh and the 16 pointed sun of Alexander the Great (the Rajput symbol in BC), and they settled in Nepal. They became known as Gurkhas.

It seems quite logical to me that if BC should represent the muslim after party of Northern India, it should also represent the remnant Rajputs, the Gurkhas. Obviously these men would NOT be fighting for the Delhi sultanate, but against it. They would be good at representing an emerging Rajput Indian faction to the North of Delhi and would provide a superb North to South border conflict.

I can't see this being any sort of historical liberty. These men were not the Asian looking Ghurkas of the modern day, but lightly armoured Indian-Rajput exiles armed with Kopesh and good quality steel shields. A type of unit that we discussed including many times.

Cheers

p.s It's not in the bible, but it's in the wikipedia.

[Miraj]

Yes, no doubt. I was more meaning for the Delhi sultanate I guess. I was sort of thinking of the modern Gurkhas, which definitely seem out of place.

We were planning a stronger differentiation between the Northern Rajputs and southern Indians for BC 1.1 and 2.0 so a Gurkha-styled martial unit for the Northern Rajputs would indeed be appropriate.

p.s It's not in the bible, but it's in the wikipedia.

You lie! That's in the bible!!!

[Tail End Charlie]

Mirage I have to say I've seen enough clips of that guy...

Thanks for answering my question.

I don't think Nepal is even in the 2.0 map

So the expanded India portion of the map will have The two Rajput factions, Ghurids and Sindh with Dehli emerging.

[kepper]

Is possible don´t give all the settlements, just the Indian and the rest go the rebel, this will represent the power struggle.

Founding of the Delhi Sultanate
Muhammad Ghori established the first real Muslim state in North India. Upon Sultan Ghori's death in 1206, Qutb-ud-din Aybak, after a brief power struggle, succeeded in establishing himself as ruler of the empire in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and northern India; Ghori's Central Asian possessions had been captured by none other than the Mongol warlord, Genghis Khan

[Miraj]

Is possible don´t give all the settlements, just the Indian and the rest go the rebel, this will represent the power struggle.

Founding of the Delhi Sultanate
Muhammad Ghori established the first real Muslim state in North India. Upon Sultan Ghori's death in 1206, Qutb-ud-din Aybak, after a brief power struggle, succeeded in establishing himself as ruler of the empire in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and northern India; Ghori's Central Asian possessions had been captured by none other than the Mongol warlord, Genghis Khan

Yeah I could do that. Might be fun to simulate a sort of eastern ghurid-delhi "civil war".

Even funner if you're a Hindu player and take advantage of the split.

[whhyy]

Will these guys get t3h epix spearz?

I guess what I'm wondering is are they going to be somewhat opposites of the Ghorids.

[Miraj]

Spear units? Yeah, they should.

[Son of Mao]

What are the chances of the inclusion of a armored elephant like seen above?

[Miraj]

A heavy elite Delhi elephant is definitely something I want to see. How armoured is another matter. Most of the sources are of the Mughals that had really epicly mail and plate armoured war elephants... but it's not a stretch to say Delhi did too.