Presidential Election Thread Take X + 2

[Farnan]

You know the drill. I won't even have to link the other one, I think you guys can debate this topic without any prompting by now.

[Shaun]

Why the hell did you create a new one when the old one was perfectly on topic?

[RZZZA]

whats the deal, why delete a thread that had good discussion in it?

it wasnt even that big


edit: yeah what shaun said

[Shaun]

Exactly. This is just hampering good discussion. WHY?!

[Farnan]

One, that topic was flying off-topic repeatedly.

Second, part of the policy towards these threads. If you want I will repost the last 4 on-topic posts and you can re pick up the conversation.

[Chaigidel]

well lets get back to it gentlemen!

anyway, it is a fact that certain portions of our society still harbor racism, and it is a fact that some people will not vote for hillary because she is a woman and barack because he is a black man. thats all im saying.

the vast majority who do disagree do so for legitimate reasons.

[RZZZA]

last 4 posts? repost like the last 5 pages at least, especially the part where we rag on Rush Limbaugh, that part needs to be stickied or something.

[Chaigidel]

Shaun he has a full thing on his website about his policies and plans do you want the inside memo or something? his full book o stuff hes gonna do?

[RZZZA]

yeah seriously shaun, its not obamas fault that you dont listen or arent well informed.

he goes on about hope and change because being inspirational is one of his campaign strategies, but he also goes into specifics, maybe try listening to a speech for more than 5 minutes.

[fatsheep]

yeah seriously shaun, its not obamas fault that you dont listen or arent well informed.

he goes on about hope and change because being inspirational is one of his campaign strategies, but he also goes into specifics, maybe try listening to a speech for more than 5 minutes.

To be honest, the none of the candidates speeches are too great for in detail policy positions. If you want specifics, go to his website, listen to debates, listen to him answer questions from voters, etc...

[RZZZA]

thats exactly what I'm saying, its usually notthe candidates fault that the individual chooses to remain uninformed, the information is out there. At this late stage for someone to say "What hope? what change?" shows astounding ignorance.

if you dont know by now then you should probably just keep your mouth shut and not broadcast your own ignorance.

[Chaigidel]

which comes back to the point of not wanting him to be the right man for the job because he is who he is, this willing ignorance of his positions.

[HorseArcher]

Let me quote a few people whom I talked with about the elections and the candidates in the past 6-7 months.

Talking, I mean, real-talking, eye-to eye.


Middle-class American/ some wealth, large family, soon want to retire:

Never have time for anything, working constantly, don't watch too much news, have his own business, staunch republican:

Him: -I'll vote for McCain, because I don't like Hillary, and Obama is just another democrat .

Me - Why do you vote for McCain?

Him: - Because he is a republican, just like me.

:hmmm:

Another:
Low class American, self employed, lately loosing a lot of money, business ain't good as used to be:

Him: -I wanted to vote for a republican, but now I might just not vote at all. I don't like any of the candidates.

Me: - How about Obama or Hillary?

Him: - No, they are communists. Mandatory Health care? No thanks. McCain is an idiot and a loser. I'd vote for Bush before I would vote for McCain, that's how bad he is.


Another:

Middle-High Class, Woman, retired, has plenty of money, a democrat:

-Her: -I'm voting for Obama, because don't trust Hillary.
-Me: - How about Mcain?

-Her: - No way. Never ever voted for a Republican in my life.


Another:

Full time college student, just about to get his bachelor degree, has a part time job, having a hard time paying for gas:

-Him: - Obama all the way, he makes sense.
-Me: What about Hillary?
-Him: To hell with her, she is a liar.
-Me: McCain?
-Him: No. But if Ron Paul would have made it, he would be my secondary choice.

Another:

Senior Citizen, middle-high class, spends most of his time in Florida, playing golf:

-Him: I'm voting for Hillary
-Me: How about Obama or McCain?
-Him: McCain no, he is George Bush 2, Obama no, he has no experience.
-Me: Hillary is a liar.
-Him: I don't care, they all lie anyway. I'm voting for Hillary, because Bill Clinton was a good president and he is getting back in the White House.


So there you go a country divided, each believing his/her own version.

[fatsheep]

Let me quote a few people whom I talked with about the elections and the candidates in the past 6-7 months.

Talking, I mean, real-talking, eye-to eye.

...

I have talked to people as well. Most of them play into the narratives you quoted above.

Hillary supporters go for her because (1) she has experience, (2) Bill Clinton was a good president, or (3) they want a female president. Hillary haters usually hate her because she's a democrat or untrustworthy.

I haven't heard a lot from Obama supporters. Most seem to like the fact that he's a new voice, inspires them, or they think he is best able to unite the country to accomplish the goals that he seeks. People who dislike him... I've met some people that still think he is a Muslim and was swore in on the Koran. Others don't like him because he's a democrat (and they are conservative) or he doesn't have enough experience in their view.

Maybe it's because I'm still in high school but it seems to me that VERY few people can have an intelligent discussion on politics. The people in my school who are voting usually have one sentence explanations. I kept on pressing this Hillary supporter on why he was voting for Hillary out of curiosity (I didn't tell him I was for Obama). He just kept on repeating "experience" and accredited Bill Clinton's success to her pulling the strings.

And I'm not saying Obama or Mccain supporters are any better. A lot of Obama supporters I see at my school just seem to like him because he's a new voice without knowing much about his policies or record. If only people spent more time and thought over who would really be the best president instead of focusing on party affiliation and silly talking points then maybe we would be more satisfied with our presidents and more satisfied with our government in general.

[Icefrisco]

To be honest, the none of the candidates speeches are too great for in detail policy positions. If you want specifics, go to his website, listen to debates, listen to him answer questions from voters, etc...

Though Hilary is not extremely specific, she is more then Obama. Everytime I listen to Obama speak he is far more general then any other candidate. The only time I ever heard him go into details was the "Gas Station Address" when he spoke about his clothes. However, both Hilary and Obama make constant jabs at president Bush while they should really be talking about the issues.

[Chaigidel]

this is all about whipping up the party base and bush is hated by everyone but the most staunch **** i mean conservatives

[Chaigidel]

well I just hope it breaks on who im backing.

[Scar Face]

It's disgusting how many Americans have this ill conceived notion that any degree of socialization means you are a communist- or even a socialist. They do not even know what the terms mean. It's odd that America had this come about because of the Cold war, where Canada-and as far as I know most of Europe- do not share this rabid anti socialism.

[H_man]

It's disgusting how many Americans have this ill conceived notion that any degree of socialization means you are a communist- or even a socialist. They do not even know what the terms mean. It's odd that America had this come about because of the Cold war, where Canada-and as far as I know most of Europe- do not share this rabid anti socialism.

Agreed. When I was younger, I was often confused by American politics as I watched it for probably 2 hours of every couple of years when my parents had it on. Even at that age I wondered about the US and why both their parties seemed so conservative (keep in mind this is from the Canadian perspective). It seems to me America's problems with gov't are stemming from their natural lust for dichotomy, rather than being concerned with more substantial issues. Far too ideological for my taste. For instance, none of the politicians are pushing an agenda for global sustainable development. I know America has problems, but working towards the development of oppressed countries will only help it, as the commerce hub of the world, in the future. America can, and should not remain a SUPERpower forever. In a globalized world, power should be shared (call the communist police), but wealth should be determined by a mixture of free AND fair trade economic policies. Right now, free trade is raping the developing world, and continents such as Africa are being stuck in a pit fall (no other continent has decreased in wealth in the last 20 years). They do NOT want our aid. They want a balanced WTO, to allow their continents international trade to increase to at least 2% of the world's market share. This alone would give Africa five times as much wealth as they currently have aid. They're not asking to live luxuriously, simply to be paid enough to educate their children (yes, education is important in ALL!!! societies), put shoes on their feet, and provide themselves other basic neccessities.

[JP226]

It's disgusting how many Americans have this ill conceived notion that any degree of socialization means you are a communist- or even a socialist. They do not even know what the terms mean.

It doesn't work though... It's lead to alot of dead people. It's not that because of huma nature that it fails, it's the way the system is built. Yet people like yourself thin it's some noble cause. Dead people is not a noble cause no matter how virtuous your line of thinking is meant to be.