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Thread: I'm sick of being lied to

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  1. #1

    Default I'm sick of being lied to

    It seems like wherever I go, whatever I do, as long as I am looking at anything even remotely political, there's a good chance I'm being lied to. down is up, bad is good, the sky is red, lies that are seriously blatant and really just insult my intelligence are being put out as fact on a daily basis. Am I alone in this? I'm really not the tower 7, shack in the Montana wilds type of guy, but it seems like I'm never getting the truth on most of what I read/hear about in any given situation. I'm not a nut, am I?
    Patronized by happyho in the Legion of Rahl
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Debs
    The Republican and Democratic parties, or, to be more exact, the Republican-Democratic party, represent the capitalist class in the class struggle. They are the political wings of the capitalist system and such differences as arise between them relate to spoils and not to principles.

  2. #2

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    The truth is that almost everything is going to have at least a slight bias. The best way to interpret the article and extract facts rather than opinions is by determining what the bias is. Is the author a Republican? Democrat? Feminist?

  3. #3

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by _Pontifex_ View Post
    The truth is that almost everything is going to have at least a slight bias. The best way to interpret the article and extract facts rather than opinions is by determining what the bias is. Is the author a Republican? Democrat? Feminist?
    I don't mean bias. I'm way past bias. I mean outright lies. Like I said; people trying to tell you up is down, that sort of thing. It's pretty sickening imo.
    Patronized by happyho in the Legion of Rahl
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Debs
    The Republican and Democratic parties, or, to be more exact, the Republican-Democratic party, represent the capitalist class in the class struggle. They are the political wings of the capitalist system and such differences as arise between them relate to spoils and not to principles.

  4. #4

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinosaur View Post
    I don't mean bias. I'm way past bias. I mean outright lies. Like I said; people trying to tell you up is down, that sort of thing. It's pretty sickening imo.
    Welcome too politics, everybody lies.

  5. #5

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnum View Post
    Welcome too politics, everybody lies.
    Welcome also to women, co-workers, bosses, friends, your parents, your children, etc. Diogenes once sought to find an honest man with a candle at noon. Reports are that he failed.

    Bah, you don't get it. If you'd have grown up as an American you'd get it that everyone was blowing huge amounts of smoke up your ass about how great America is and all that patriotic . Hell, the "Liberal Biased" news doesn't even report on tent cities springing up in the US because it might upset their rightist masters.
    Rightist masters. I'm rolling my eyes here. Yet another kid that thinks he knows all about the oh-so intricate plotting of the adult world. (They're all scheming to make you clean your room, too! "Aw, but mom, I don't feel like doing it today! Do you have to heed your Zionist Neocon masters all the time?")

    Now, I grant you that some news topics are shunted aside simply because they would make Joe Average grow bored and change the channel, thus harming ad revenue; but even the noted leftist slant of many news networks is not a grand conspiracy, but just due to the fact that Journalism attracts starry-eyed idealistic people who want to "change the world" with their reporting. Conservatives tend to view the world as the way it is, gritty and immutable. None of them really want to be reporters, since it's all been said and done before.

    Still... you'll learn. But anyone who trucks in conspiracy theories after, say, college graduation is a pretty sad piece of work.

    As for the setting up of the tent cities, it's not reported because it is no big deal. That's a little camp of several dozen, not a huge "city" (in your words) demanding immediate attention. Yes, people lost homes. People have been making financial mistakes all throughout human history since Gyges struck the first coin, and they always have to pay for it. These guys chose to take variable-rate loans because they were greedy and ill-informed. One of those traits at a time is okay--both simultaneously are not. Actions have consequences. No reloading a savegame!

    The police really should clear those squatters off that lot, if it isn't zoned for camping. Apartments being so cheap, there is no call for tolerating squatters, however fun the political drama created. If two or more people wish to room together, as any of a million craigslist postings advertise right now, it becomes even more cheap. $300 a month or so, on several listings that I'm drawing up on my screen right now.

    Even Mexican fruit pickers make enough to pay $3600 a year. If these Americans were in such dire straits, maybe they should start picking fruit or washing dishes: you know, the reason that a million illegals cross our borders each year. Then they'd easily afford a modest apartment. These people piss me off. At a mere 5% unemployment, this charade of living in tents is a ridiculous farce.

    They're there in tents because they want to be, not because they have to be. America is great because any real man doesn't need to live in a squatter's city, if he's not work-shy.

    And now, for our Chinese members, my attempt at mandarin! 他们应该能上能下的谋生。 我你们对茬儿的希望。 (Using my adjectival-phrase skills there for the first time. It may be cringe-inducing.)

  6. #6

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinosaur View Post
    I don't mean bias. I'm way past bias. I mean outright lies. Like I said; people trying to tell you up is down, that sort of thing. It's pretty sickening imo.
    The truth is often distorted. I try to read several articles pertaining to one event and see what they agree on. Usually things that are mentioned consistently are facts.

  7. #7

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    who's trying to tell you up is down?

    I'll help you kick their ass.


    I'll hold their hands behind their back and you hit em, ok?

  8. #8

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    who's trying to tell you up is down?

    I'll help you kick their ass.


    I'll hold their hands behind their back and you hit em, ok?
    If only it were that simple, we could make a career out of doing just that. Seriously though, there doesn't seem to be any place to hear about things going on in the world that doesn't tow the line of someone with more money than the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnum
    Welcome too politics, everybody lies.
    Bah, you don't get it. If you'd have grown up as an American you'd get it that everyone was blowing huge amounts of smoke up your ass about how great America is and all that patriotic . Hell, the "Liberal Biased" news doesn't even report on tent cities springing up in the US because it might upset their rightist masters.
    Last edited by Rhinosaur; April 26, 2008 at 11:08 PM.
    Patronized by happyho in the Legion of Rahl
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Debs
    The Republican and Democratic parties, or, to be more exact, the Republican-Democratic party, represent the capitalist class in the class struggle. They are the political wings of the capitalist system and such differences as arise between them relate to spoils and not to principles.

  9. #9

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinosaur View Post
    It seems like wherever I go, whatever I do, as long as I am looking at anything even remotely political, there's a good chance I'm being lied to. down is up, bad is good, the sky is red, lies that are seriously blatant and really just insult my intelligence are being put out as fact on a daily basis. Am I alone in this? I'm really not the tower 7, shack in the Montana wilds type of guy, but it seems like I'm never getting the truth on most of what I read/hear about in any given situation. I'm not a nut, am I?
    I don't think that this thread belongs in the Political Mudpit as this is not about any specific political event.

  10. #10

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    People often distort facts to suit their own purposes and convince indifferent individuals, that is a fact. Even the media is partisan.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  11. #11

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    i lean left so i identify with left leaning news outlets, I like msnbc, i like huffington post and washington post. sometimes drudge report.

    reuters is good.

  12. #12

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    the LA Times reported on tent cities, just typing in "tent cities" in google reveals a ton of matches

    watchu talkin bout?

  13. #13

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    the LA Times reported on tent cities, just typing in "tent cities" in google reveals a ton of matches

    watchu talkin bout?


    It's too important a story to only get the small amount of press that it's gotten so far, and it's only a small example.
    Patronized by happyho in the Legion of Rahl
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Debs
    The Republican and Democratic parties, or, to be more exact, the Republican-Democratic party, represent the capitalist class in the class struggle. They are the political wings of the capitalist system and such differences as arise between them relate to spoils and not to principles.

  14. #14

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    well, how long have the mainstream media been focusing on places like flint, michigan? years, at least.

    now the story is on inflated food prices, how bad of an idea ethanol was and the rice shortage. *shrug*

  15. #15

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    well, how long have the mainstream media been focusing on places like flint, michigan? years, at least.

    now the story is on inflated food prices, how bad of an idea ethanol was and the rice shortage. *shrug*

    in lol. Ethanol wasn't a bad idea, if only they would've gone with something like switch grass, or some non essential crop like sugarcane, but influential constituencies had to be fellated after all.
    Patronized by happyho in the Legion of Rahl
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Debs
    The Republican and Democratic parties, or, to be more exact, the Republican-Democratic party, represent the capitalist class in the class struggle. They are the political wings of the capitalist system and such differences as arise between them relate to spoils and not to principles.

  16. #16

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Yes, Reuters is better than most.

    The Real News is also good.

    This quote from the Real News website:


    Our mission



    The Real News Network is a television news and documentary network focused on providing independent and uncompromising journalism.


    What's real about The Real News?




    We won't blindly follow wire services or official press releases that attempt to set the news agenda. We will cover the big stories of the day, but we will broaden the definition of what's important.

    This quote is from http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_media.html


    The Western Media

    Introduction
    Living in the West we are told that the news media (television, newspapers, radio) are free. It is certainly true that there are few government conspiracies to censor. Unlike in totalitarian countries, the media is not generally state run or controlled. However this is not the full story. Because the media is part of the global economy, there are certain properties that deny readers, viewers and listeners a balanced view of world events.

    The are five reasons why a balanced view of world events is not generally received in the Western media:

    1 Media Ownership
    Most newspapers, television and radio stations are owned by large and powerful multi-national companies.

    In the USA, NBC and CBS (two television companies) are owned by corporations involved in arms manufacture and nuclear power (General Electric and Westinghouse). Several oil companies (Exxon, Texaco and Mobil) have seats on the boards of these news organisations. Time-Warner and CNN merged in the late 1990s to form one of the largest news and media monopolies in the world. Rupert Murdoch is the largest owner of television stations in the USA. Originally an Australian citizen, his American citizenship was "fast-tracked" by the Reagan administration to allow him to own television stations in the country.

    Stories that highlight problems with nuclear power or waste, stories about oil companies involved with governments that violate human rights and stories about conflicts armed by Western companies are unlikely to be given much coverage. Stories that help the interests of the media owners are given prominence.

    One man, John Malone, owns 23% of the world's cable stations. His Discovery Channel commissions programs after "market approval" and avoids "controversial subjects". The phrase "dumbing down" has entered the language as television concentrates on gossip and celebrity stories rather than serious issues.

    In Australia Rupert Murdoch (him again) owns 7 out of the 12 national daily newspapers and 7 out of 10 Sunday newspapers. In one city, Adelaide, Murdoch owns all the newspapers. This cannot be good for pluralism.

    In 1975, one of Murdoch's newspapers, The Australian, ran a campaign that helped remove the country's democratically elected government by the UK appointed Governor-General.

    In the UK, News International (a company mostly owned by Rupert Murdoch) owns several newspapers (including The Times and The Sun), Sky Television (a major European satellite operator), Star Television (covering Asia) and publishers like Harper Collins.

    In 1998, Rupert Murdoch owned 34% of the daily newspapers and 37% of the Sunday newspapers in the UK. He often uses the large resources of his multinational companies to lower the price of his newspapers in an attempt to put rival newspapers out of business. Successive UK governments have allowed his empire to grow in return for his media's support.

    53% of UK newspaper and magazine distribution is controlled by just two companies, WH Smith and John Menzies. Smaller magazines (like the political and satirical Private Eye) can have (and have had) their distribution curtailed at the whim of these companies.

    Europe often has more pluralistic laws than the English speaking world. In France, there are laws prohibiting any single organisation from controlling newspapers with more than 30% of the combined national and regional readership. In addition, all publications have a legal right of distribution. In Germany, minority shareholders can veto editorial decisions. In Sweden small independent newspapers are supported and financed by law. European aversion to monopolies is one reason why Murdoch's media are consistently anti-Europe.

    Rupert Murdoch has used his media ownership to influence what information is made available to the public in order to protect his business interests (especially in Malaysia and China):

    Articles had been written in The Times exposing the British (UK) government offering aid to Malaysia in return for them buying arms from the UK. The Times' editor was sacked after being told by Murdoch "the public are bored with Malaysia".

    Murdoch removed the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) World Service Television from the Star Television package of television channels broadcast in China. The Chinese government had complained about the BBC's coverage of human rights in China. Shortly afterwards Murdoch signed a deal with the government's mouthpiece newspaper, the Peoples' Daily. He produced a documentary on his Star TV eulogising the Chinese ruler, Deng Xiaoping who had been in charge when Chinese troops killed thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators in Beijing's Tienanmen Square.

    The last UK governor of Hong Kong, Chris Patten, was due to have a book published by the Murdoch owned Harper Collins. This book was critical of the Chinese government. Publication was stopped. Instead a biography of Deng Xiaoping (written by his daughter) was published.

    The Sun and The Times newspapers are frequently publishing articles critical of the BBC (the UK's major television channels) and praising Sky Television (which he also owns). These newspapers are also very anti-Europe. Closer ties between the UK and Europe could affect the small amount of taxes that Murdoch's companies pay.

    In 2004, the USA documentary film maker, Michael Moore, had problems with having his film distributed in the USA. The distributer was Miramax, owned by Disney. The latter did not want a controversial film criticising the USA president in an election year.


    Cross-media ownership and the fact that a small number of people own so many of our means of obtaining information is a threat to a pluralistic society.

    2 Advertising and Ratings
    When the media depends on advertising, the advertisers can exert pressure. A large media conglomerate may be able to absorb the loss of advertisers but a smaller, alternative newspaper or radio station may be pushed out of business. Advertisers frequently use their influence to stop stories detrimental to their interests.

    In a 1992 survey in the UK, 150 newspaper editors stated that 90% of their advertisers had interfered with stories; 70% of the advertisers had tried to stop stories. 40% of the editors had succumbed to pressure from advertisers and made the changes requested.

    In the UK in 1990, new laws meant that TV news had to make a profit. This has led to a decline in serious news items and more emphasis on "human interest" stories and celebrity "news". Advertisers want viewers; ratings become more important than giving information; the news companies abandon investigative journalism to "give the public what it wants".

    Deregulation has meant that requirements to produce in-depth public affairs programming were removed. On most Western TV channels, only 4% of prime time programming is about the majority of the world's population. Programs that cover "controversial" subjects are screened at late hours. For example, in September 2002, the UK commercial television channel, ITV, broadcast a program by journalist John Pilger about the effects of the occupation of Palestine on the population. It was shown at 11:05pm.

    Most people fail to be exposed to programs covering subjects like Western companies using local slave labour in poorer countries, trade practices that keep developing countries poor, wars armed by Western companies, action by the West's secret services, and studies of Western backed dictatorships.

    In the UK, one of the better current affairs programs on the BBC, Panorama, which for many years on Mondays at 9:00pm (after the news), was moved to Sunday at 10:30pm. Programs and news reports that have recently been dropped include sweatshops in China producing toys for the UK Christmas market, the Chinese occupation of Tibet, and many programs about the problems in Northern Ireland.

    As the number of commerical radio stations increases, the output becomes more bland and more predictable.
    Follow the above link for more......
    Last edited by whhyy; April 26, 2008 at 11:35 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by whhyy View Post
    Yes, Reuters is better than most.

    The Real News is also good.

    This quote from the Real News website:




    This quote is from http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_media.html




    Follow the above link for more......
    The section about the types of programmes shown on British tv is absolute bollocks.

  18. #18

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    so how was it not a bad idea?

    if they shoulda gone with something else i mean, that makes corn ethanol a bad idea

  19. #19

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    so how was it not a bad idea?

    if they shoulda gone with something else i mean, that makes corn ethanol a bad idea
    Ethanol wasn't a bad idea as a way to wean us off foreign oil, it's just that relying on a staple food crop to produce it (which just happened to enrich certain influential companies) was a terrible way to go about it.
    Patronized by happyho in the Legion of Rahl
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene Debs
    The Republican and Democratic parties, or, to be more exact, the Republican-Democratic party, represent the capitalist class in the class struggle. They are the political wings of the capitalist system and such differences as arise between them relate to spoils and not to principles.

  20. #20

    Default Re: I'm sick of being lied to

    so corn ethanol was a bad idea, thats my point, lol.

    they picked corn because it seemed like a nice patriotic crop.

    good thing they didnt pick potatos, thats all i can say, i woulda had to gnaw some mufuggaz leg off by now if i couldnt get me my taters

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