How come bodyguards are so tough to kill?

[hekk]

Playing Hard, I used 3 full unit cards of Armored Spearmen and 3 unit cards of Norman knights against a Moor general with 19 bodyguards, and it took me about 10 mins before any of them started dieing and while they alone had killed over 150 soldiers.

This is really annoying, any chance of a fix on this?

[Decius the Mad]

Playing Hard, I used 3 full unit cards of Armored Spearmen and 3 unit cards of Norman knights against a Moor general with 19 bodyguards, and it took me about 10 mins before any of them started dieing and while they alone had killed over 150 soldiers.

This is really annoying, any chance of a fix on this?

A fix..on the strength of the generals bodyguard..after they've already been weakened significantly? They have much lower numbers, and in 5.1, if I recall correctly, they only had the one hitpoint.

You're also playing on Hard. They're strong for a reason. Aside from being elite troops guarding an important person. Now go reverse this situation, with you having the one unit of general's bodyguard.

[tup]

In 5.1 they had 2 hitpoints, too. I thought it was supposed to be changed for 6.0 so I was kinda surprised to still have my weapon of mass destruction.:hmmm:

Anyways, Bodyguards alone are very hard, due to high defense and 2 hitpoints. If a general has high command I think there's also some kind of boost or so... the general alone can tank a whole lot if he has some hitpoints adding traits.

[rageallday]

how can i edit ALL generals hitpoints in the game? :hmmm:

[spanish_emperor]

how can i edit ALL generals hitpoints in the game? :hmmm:

go to export_descr_unit

[hekk]

A fix..on the strength of the generals bodyguard..after they've already been weakened significantly? They have much lower numbers, and in 5.1, if I recall correctly, they only had the one hitpoint.

Can't say I've noticed much difference from that, and I remember that bodyguards were very close to being immortal then.

You're also playing on Hard. They're strong for a reason. Aside from being elite troops guarding an important person. Now go reverse this situation, with you having the one unit of general's bodyguard.

I play Hard to get something of a real challenge, and I don't think its realistic at all 20 mounted soldiers can survive that long alone with so many people (about 600 soldiers) piercing and slashing them with spears and swords.

[Marcus Fulvius]

A fix..on the strength of the generals bodyguard..after they've already been weakened significantly? They have much lower numbers, and in 5.1, if I recall correctly, they only had the one hitpoint.

You're also playing on Hard. They're strong for a reason. Aside from being elite troops guarding an important person. Now go reverse this situation, with you having the one unit of general's bodyguard.

might have just been me... but my generals died very very easily in 5.1 they're stronger now... but before...

i could send a general unit of 17 up against another general unit with fewer men in it... and it wouldnt matter if i had more exp or even got the initial charge... my general unit would lose.

i think in 5.1 what had happened was that the player general units were reduced to 1 hp, while other factions kept the 2hp.

6.0 seems to have solved this somewhat... its still a struggle for my generals to win a 1v1 against another general, but so long as we're both equal in exp and numbers, if i get the first charge i can usually win it.

[spanish_emperor]

i agree, they are too overpowered.

ill change their stats to something more realistic in my game, i am just over it

[Decius the Mad]

Realism? Would you prefer YOUR King's bodyguard to die like that? the character you spent many turns developing? Realism is all well and good, but there's a limit when it comes into contact with enjoyable gameplay.

And I just hate when a general catches a catapult shot with his face.
But that's just me

..I could've sworn 5.1 had 1HP generals, but that may've been my modding of it.

[Troubleshooter]

Realism? Would you prefer YOUR King's bodyguard to die like that? the character you spent many turns developing? Realism is all well and good, but there's a limit when it comes into contact with enjoyable gameplay.

And I just hate when a general catches a catapult shot with his face.
But that's just me

..I could've sworn 5.1 had 1HP generals, but that may've been my modding of it.

The RC submod for 5.1 reduced them to 1 HP i think. Did you perhaps use that one?

[s0meguy]

I like it this way. Enemy bodyguard is hard to kill but yours is as well. They will still die if you use spearmen against them (10 minutes is a LARGE overstatement). Smartest thing to do if you want to kill the enemy bodyguard with few losses is attack them with multiple of your bodyguards.

[Naked Emperor]

I didn't like it either so I gave them 1 hp but boosted their numbers instead. Now they have base soldiers 12 instead of 8. Which means kings have 32-40 bodyguards but now they are like hvy cav. instead.

[Altimis]

no...

just rebalanced ALL heavily cavalry

by reduced "ARMOR" down a bit, notice that MOSTLY heavily cavalry had "ARMOR" like 15+ [some had like even 18 - 19] go check it in units status files

that why your tiny spear can't kill them

NOTE : "ARMOR" not "Total defense", I mean "ARMOR"

[Naked Emperor]

It hasn't only to do with armor. The cav uses combined Armor+skill+shield as it's defenses. If you would give the cavalry skill of 20 and no armour it would still be tough in melee, but easy to kill with archers.

[cannon3231]

I think some balance does need to be shifted with regard to generals and their retinue. While I certainly don't like losing key commanders, when a general and ten guards can fight five units of Teutonic Order spearman hand to hand for five minutes without taking a single casualty... that's a little rediculous. I understand if they are resistant to militia spearman or some such, but fairly well armed and armored troops should be able to at least hurt the unit.

[joewagner501]

I agree with Cannon on this one. They should be tough, but having a unit that functions as a modern tank isn't very fun. I want a General and bodyguard unit that isn't so strong. It makes the battles more interesting because you need to be aware of where they are, what they are doing and who they are fighting.

On another note, the best way I have found to kill off these "tanks" is to use ranged units. Crossbowmen work wonders. Especially if they are mounted themselves. I had a battle as Poland where a Russian general was within range of four mounted crossbowmen (don't remember the name of the unit, sorry) and they decimated the general unit right down to the last man. None of them got out alive. It also helps to shoot at them from the side or rear. They take more casualties that way.

[fieldmarshal]

I actually prefer the BG as they are....since i don't ever use them in battle...if my 2H or spearmen cant handle enemy BG's i throw in my own BG's to shift the balance. I like the fact that they are tough...so your always afraid of that unit...in my battles...i constantly keep watch over the enemy BG...because if they go after your weaker units...they don't stand a chance. Making them weaker would just make them useless imo because you cant use them as a last ditch attempt to save the battle if they just died off as easy as other cav.

[s0meguy]

I actually prefer the BG as they are....since i don't ever use them in battle...if my 2H or spearmen cant handle enemy BG's i throw in my own BG's to shift the balance. I like the fact that they are tough...so your always afraid of that unit...in my battles...i constantly keep watch over the enemy BG...because if they go after your weaker units...they don't stand a chance. Making them weaker would just make them useless imo because you cant use them as a last ditch attempt to save the battle if they just died off as easy as other cav.

What he said.

and you guys are WAY exaggerating it. 5 minutes vs 4 teutonic spear units and no kills? no way man, it takes like 15 or so seconds before they start taking hits when properly surrounded with good spearmen. When you do that the BG stand no chance. Oh yeah, use your own BG's to fight the enemy BG's. If you don't do that you're just being stupid (unless obviously your BG is weakened).

well i guess my spearmen is usless then.

See, this kind of exaggerating is what I'm talking about. Don't change this plz.

[Iscariott]

It's not even just a case of "use your bg to kill theirs" everything I've posted works. I just got done killing a bg with a unit of armored seargents + 1 unit of mounted seargents. It was easy. Schiltrom, side charge w/ light cav as they spread around the formation. Pull back light cav after the charge, less than half a bg unit left. They pull back to recharge the infantry, i catch them from the side again as they impact. End of fight.

[Iscariott]

I dont seem to have the problems others do killing bg's. 5 units of order spears? dead general.

The only time bg units become a difficulty is in sieges. And hey, they should be dismounted unstoppable deathmachines in sieges, CA didnt include the dismount option for anything *shrug* a wash to me.

I wouldnt mind 1hp generals though.