Are Reiters Kitsch?

[Old Geezer]

My long anticipated use of these often lauded men has been frustrating and disappointing. Every time I use them they run up very close to the enemy, get shot to pieces by enemy archers, and then stand there while the enemy infantry or even archers charge them and make them route after kiling two thirds of them. So I said forget the funny gun business and just charge the pavaise crossbowmen; the pavaise crossbowmen hacked them to pieces. These were mercenary rebels without a general. How humiliating. I guess I am as bad as my Prussian ancestor who lost a battle and instead of doing the "honorable" thing did the wise thing and came to America where he could meet some cute Irish lasses.

I'd ask for help but I'm too proud too and probably too stupid to be able to follow the advice. (I didn't tell my wife about this; I just told her how I'd crushed the Mongols so easily so she'd think I'm a genius.)

I just had another bad experience with a unit of 30 Reiters getting chopped by woodsmen this time and routing when it took 9 losses.

I looked up Reiters stats in the descr_units file and found that they have a range of only 45 whereas Jinetes have a range of 55. I guess they just are too slow and close to get away.

[HopliteLysander]

Thats too bad...I was looking forward to trying these guys too.

[Leutnant]

Turn on skirmish mode and fire at will. That way, when the enemy gets too close to you, the reiters will run away from them, all the while shooting bullets into their enemys' heads.

P.S. DON'T use reiters as heavy cavalry

[Old Geezer]

The problem has been that they have been on skirmish and even in the cantabarian circus act. I'll keep on practicing against the Russians and the English until the Timurids show up.

I just tested them again as my only attacking unit so I could watch them closely and made sure that I had skirmish mode on because they don't start that way as the default. They did ok at first but then let some norse infantry get too close and got caught or charged and wound up losing 8 out of the 31. Then a unit of norse foot were chasing them and got spread out so when the enemy got close the Reiters decided to charge them. I guess they are too impetuous. They will run away ok from knights on horse but get suckered into charging swordsmen apparently. Maybe their morale is too high or they are not disciplined enough. I just checked their stats in the descr_units file which shows that they are 9 morale and normal and trained for discipline and training. So mine are just brave drunks maybe? (My mounted crossbows and turkopoles have no such problems. I think these Reiters may be Bavarians and just don't want to follow orders. It is OK for me to malign Bavarians - I carry a Bavarian surname.)

Use them as heavy cavalry? I don't have the nerve to charge them into Hobilars.

[clandestino]

Historicaly Reiters were used against pike and shoot formation in the early Modern era. That means that they were deployed against slow moving enemy and didn't encounter offten in melee, so I think that the best use of them should be peppering of enemies pike/spear formations and evading of melee fighting with swordsmen and cavalry (so called fire and run tactics). They also should have some heavier cavalry support to counterpart attack of enemie's cavalry and chase off his ranged units.

[Leutnant]

Turn on guard mode and don't use cantabarian circle. This way they won't go around charging people and get charged at. If the reiters get spread out, regroup them by ordering them to go a certain amount of distance away from the enemy. Once regrouped, use them in battle again.

[green tea]

And you should watch your Reiter in battle closely- and if an enemy unit gets too near, you should turn off the skirmish mode and move them manually- sometimes the skirmish mode does not work correctly when Reiters (Horsearchers in general) either are next to the end of the map or surrounded by enemies- then they don´t know where to run and run in the enemy.

[Emperor Taizu]

Reiters carry scaled down musket, which is why they have to get closer to the enemy to fire unlike normal musketeers.

[Kennylz]

Your first mistake was to overly rely on one unit alone, no matter how awesome they are. These aren't Spartan Hoplites. They are a niche unit that just happens to be very good for the specific thing they are meant for. You can't just put 10 in a stack and steam-roll everything. You write a lot about how they got killed, but not of how you were using your heavy cavalry, spears, and assault infantry.

Still, Camel Gunners > Reiters.

[Old_Scratch]

I'm not a fan of Reiters and prefer mounted crossbows, but they do have some uses. I use them as close infantry support for their morale damage. I view them like mounted hand gunners, I rely more on the fear than the actual damage they cause. They aren't good at all for traditional horse archer tactics. They're too slow, too short range and too expensive.

[clandestino]

Your first mistake was to overly rely on one unit alone, no matter how awesome they are. These aren't Spartan Hoplites. They are a niche unit that just happens to be very good for the specific thing they are meant for. You can't just put 10 in a stack and steam-roll everything. You write a lot about how they got killed, but not of how you were using your heavy cavalry, spears, and assault infantry.

Totaly right, the key is in the BALANCE of troops, I keep telling everyone. Currently I'm conquering Europe on H/H with army consisted of sergeant spearmen, mailed knights, peasant archers and only 4 units of DFK, all of them fully expirienced and uppgraded though. Imagine what you can do with 4 units of dismounted noble knigts, 4 units of DFK, 3 units of pikemen, 4 adventuriers,5 Noble knights and general?

[Old Geezer]

Well, when it is the only unit I have in the battle on what else can I rely?

From all of the above I conclude that one absolutely has to micromanage Reiters unless they are being chased by pikes or slow heavy cavalry both of which they seem to fear enought to stay away from. Why use them when the mounted crossbowmen are so much more effective and versatile? I'm going to try them against elephants but my guess is that they will get scared and route quickly.

[clandestino]

Man they looke awsome, there's something grimm in them. I love using them with Gotic knights, it gives me that dark atmosphere of Middle Ages altough they are actualy early Modern era units. When they are only units available sand some of them in front of enemy, some of them at rear an sides and pepper enemy from all directions. When they are without munition charge the enemy from back and flanks,that's my general tactic with horse archers.

[Wurfspiess]

Reminds me of the Numidian cavalary. Excellent unit but who would build an army only with them?

[green tea]

In my opinion, the key to a Med2 army is clearly heavy infantry. I hate that playing style myself and just had a campaign with russia, so many horse-archers, supported by good bows and some artillery. Now I try HRE myself with the new SS 6.0. I am far away from Reiters now, but I don´t think I would ever have more than two in an army, to use them in the way I use horsearchers: when the enemy advances, get in his back from that side on which the enemy soldiers don´t have their shields, then shoot in their backs, kill perhaps their general (I assume Reiters have ap bullets), and/or charge on the enemies artillery, then chase the routers down. This is in my opinion how to use horsearchers, unless you play a faction like russia or turkey- in that cases you could do very well with armies of horsearchers.

[Cuauhtzin]

I find them very usefull to make down the enemy´s morale and to get down number so i can attack with melee calvary. I actually deafeat mongol archers with them, i think they are very usefull to weak the enemy.

[Gazz]

I find them very usefull to make down the enemy´s morale and to get down number so i can attack with melee calvary. I actually deafeat mongol archers with them, i think they are very usefull to weak the enemy.

Nice necro.

[jmlinden7]

Reiters are gunpowder units, their projectiles are shield-piercing, so you shouldn't have to worry about shooting in the backs or sides of enemy units. They are weak against missile units though, especially crossbows and javelins. Use them to shoot anything that moves slower than them, kill enemy generals, etc.

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, the key with Reiters, as with other elite vulnerable troops is to have enough distractions for the enemy to attack instead of them. a line of heavy infantry in front to soak up the majority of the damage is a necessary first step. some heavy cavalry(Gothic Knights are your most gold efficient option, Imperial Knights and others will work too) to guard them is a necessary second step. micromanagement is a necessary third step, as you don't want such expensive units to die in vain.

now, while it's true that gunpowder units pierce through armor and shields, it's still more efficient to send Reiters off to the flanks rather up front, for the simple reason that you want the enemy to focus on your on heavy infantry rather than on your Reiters. at the flanks you can watch them more closely and make sure they stay alive. don't treat Reiters like horse archers, you said it yourself, they're way too slow and short ranged, which leaves them vulnerable and inefficient in horse archer tactics. instead treat them like gunpowder units. don't rush them forward, wait for the enemy archers to lock targets with your infantry or regular archers/crossbows, than move them to the flanks of the enemy and start shooting. that way they should perform at maximum efficiency and remain as safe as they could be.

remember, as with most things in life, the key is balance. they aren't a faceroll unit that you can just spam and win, like say elite horse archers or heavy cavalry. they need to be part of a balanced army. in such an army their role is to decimate the enemy front line(generally pikes and other heavy infantry) to clear the path for your own heavy cavalry to destroy the enemy squishy units(archers, artillery, etc). they're also great at sniping generals, especially when you go on the offensive and the AI keeps his general at the back and doesn't move it. don't put them up against archers and cavalry, as they'll lose and die pointlessly, as you've experienced first hand.

[Aeratus]

One good way to use Reiter is to simply place them behind the infantry. This way, they can shoot at anything that comes close, while avoiding arrows and other harm. The advantage of Reiters over musketeers is that they are "tall" enough to shoot over your infantry.