Balance

[lastofthelight]

Question - I'm new to the XGM, and I just tried it out on a Greek campaign where I wiped out the Macedonians and the Selucids, then got bored and decided to try a Carthagenian campaign. I've noticed two things - both of which I have questions on.

One of the things I've noticed is that all the units defense values are much, much higher then their attack values. Units also tend to be quite a bit harder to route. This means that cavalry tends to be mostly ineffective, even at rear charges - usually your cavalry doesn't do much damage, and ends up in a prolonged fight where it gets massacared, even against a single unit surrounded on the other side by a large number of spearmen. The other thing I've noticed is that it seems like every other unit can do a skirmish ranged attack; so when fighting in the east (especially with those damned Hillmen) - most battles take upwards of half an hour, not because they are hard, but because the computer /refuses/ to hold a straight infantry-line, so I end up having to hunt down gads of scattered units which refuse to route even when surrounded by my units.

Which basically makes combat....really....really....really long, and mostly makes it rely on skirmishers and infantry.

Is there anything I can do to reduce this when I play XGM? I love the unit addons and the incorporation of BI features into the campaign, but the length and chaos of the battles annoys me.

My second question is...how well does Carthage balance out? I noticed that the elephants, for example - don't really have a very high attack rating, and tend to not rampage through things anymore. I tried attacking Rome, and noticed that each unit of their /starting stack/
was more powerful then my Spartan Royal Guard from before; and my single elephant unit seemed to be mostly useless as cavalry; though with the vast number of hitpoints it had it makes for an excellent distraction.

In any case, I went into the custom battles thing to look at the units, and noticed that all of Rome's units seemed to be (while not quite as powerful as the starting stack - which seems to have started out with extra experience) - to have a great quality advantage over everything Carthage had.

Is this intentional? I thought one of the purposes of the mod was to 'balance out' the rosters?

[TM Is Back]

Can you reduce the time you put in a battle you mean? Use different tactics.

The Romans have automaticly some chevrons when you play against them. That makes the battles harder so more fun.

You got bored when you wiped out the seleucids? I suggest you move on to a more difficult level. I always play h/h and soon will be playing vh/vh. THen when youve conquered the seleucids you really have not completed anything and have problems enough.

Elephants in XGM are not to be used for hand-to-hand combat. You must keep them charging into units. That's how you must use elephants.

[RedFox]

My answer: Try XGM - Diadochi.

[Balikedes]

My answer: Try XGM - Diadochi.

I would suggest this as well...Diadochi is awesome!

I think that the cavalry in XGM is much more balanced than in vanilla RTW. Just try a campaign with Parthia or Scythia and you'll see the actual greatness of the horse archers/cataphracts combo.

Definitely, once the Heavy Cavalry/Cappadocian Cavalry comes in it's quite amazing.

[czePowerslave]

I second on fact that too many nations use just spam of skirmisher units, and cavalry seems to be slow and ineffective yes. Thats why I play Rome and GCS, I rely on infantry and archers. Have just 1-2 cav units to chase what I route. And man, im playing on H/M, and units are easy to route on this diff level. Just try to hit them a bit with anything ranged, and attack from more sides, but keep one open. When surrounded, they will fight to the death, no wonder your cav gets wiped out in this case

[Kara Kolyo]

I think that the cavalry in XGM is much more balanced than in vanilla RTW. Just try a campaign with Parthia or Scythia and you'll see the actual greatness of the horse archers/cataphracts combo.

[Stilgar CG]

LOTL, generally speaking my battles in XGM are less messy than in vanilla RTW: all happens a bit slower, you have time to adjust formation, react on the enemy movements. So, a tactitian is rewarded in XGM, I would say.

(i) use cavalry for charging weakened units only and keep some to the very end of the battle to persue and kill the routed units (this is also the solution of getting the scattered units)
(ii) (I know you do, but) use oftener the "fast forward" to skip boring parts (I always do that)
(iii) indeed, there are more something-thrawing units in XGM. More factions have access to peltast-type units and slingers. Well, we can argue if it is good or bad, but try to ajust and make best of it. My armies in XGM are more missile-heavy and to me battles are more interesting than in vanilla because of that.
(iv) perhaps, the defence stats should go high to compensate for more units throughing something (which is often armour piercing)
(v) indeed, if you position your army badly, you will have to pay for that. but in vanilla it was even worse, you often been engaged before you could change you position or formation.
(vi) well, I guess it is a bit of a bigger challenge to play Cartage in XGM than in RTW. Is that so bad?

On a general level, I like maneuvering, missile duels, cavalry duels on flanks, and short final engagement of infantry (or what is left of it) supported by decisive flank/rear blows given by cavalry charges.
I am trying to play the Shogun type approach to battles, which were pretty much the art of routing the enemy. XGM is better than vanilla RTW in this sense, I think.
At the same time, in XGM battles I still can find time to enjoy watching a charge, a hand-to-hand clash, death of an elite unit . In RTW it was often the art of fast clicking and camera turning. It was easier to loose the control over your army.

Try a barbaric faction or a new faction, like Saba. You will still have access to plenty of helenic units. Or independent Greeks; they are scattered all over the map and fight different enemies. You should not be bored.
ME

[Scutarii]

Trust me, all the unit stats in XGM are quite balanced. They may not seem high compared to other mods, but thats because XGM tries to retain the general vanilla feel while adding a whole lot and improving it. And, if you came from playing vanilla, I can see why you would like faster battles, but I would actually prefer to make them slower than they are now. You get so used to it, and trying some other slower mods, I love the slower, harder to rout units. More realistic and once you get into it, more fun.

[Spartan Guard Itachi]

the unit movement speeds though in XGM i believe were quite pnderous and nnoying so i changed them back, especially cavalry moving so so slow.

and why does "heavy cavalry" only of "light" weapon type?

[Hurlbut]

And you never should let a cavalry STAY long in fight after charging. You're supposed to repeatly charge an unit to get any effect. So you charge, when it all stop, you pull out and then repeat.

[Scutarii]

The only exception to that may be Cataphracts (armour piercing mace) or Greek Armoured Cavalry (because they have high stats and a shield for melee), but only if you ue their secondary weapon.

[Spartan Guard Itachi]

pics of this new cavalary? do u guys use that sub egyption mod also?

[Scutarii]

pics of this new cavalary? do u guys use that sub egyption mod also?

What new cavalry? :hmmm: Cappadocians and Heavy Cav are already in the game. (Cappodocians are Cataphract-like cav for Pontus, Heavy cav is jav throwing cav for many Eastern factions).

I'm waiting for the new Ptolemy skins to be put into the main installer (Dime said the next versions, I think).

[Spartan Guard Itachi]

oh ok kool thanks Scutarii...btw ive just launched a huge war agaisnt Iberia, theyve got all of spain and gaul... nd btw does Rome go inactive once rome is lost?

[Scutarii]

No, but they lose their AI bonuses, which weakens them a lot. If their large enough they should still be quite powerful.

[Spartan Guard Itachi]

no iberia hs raped them, they hold like 4 settlements very north Italian peninsula, can they survive at all without rome, i am sooo not giving it back lol

i pln to make them my barrier and try take iberia and hand the settlements to them purely becuse i dont need or want them, plushrd to hold with my fr recing empireeee

[Scutarii]

They'll survive for a bit, I doubt giving Rome Rome (lol) back will help anyways if Iberia is destroying them.