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    Default N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Interesting.

    As an addendum I thought i'd also post another article linked to the (ongoing) aftermath of that particular incident from the good people at Stratfor.

    They've been tracking some of the Geo-strategic moves going between the US, Israel, and Syria for the last couple of months now and apparently things are getting "peculiar" in that area.

    Source

    N. Koreans Taped At Syrian Reactor
    Video Played a Role in Israeli Raid

    By Robin Wright
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Thursday, April 24, 2008; A01

    A video taken inside a secret Syrian facility last summer convinced the Israeli government and the Bush administration that North Korea was helping to construct a reactor similar to one that produces plutonium for North Korea's nuclear arsenal, according to senior U.S. officials who said it would be shared with lawmakers today.

    The officials said the video of the remote site, code-named Al Kibar by the Syrians, shows North Koreans inside. It played a pivotal role in Israel's decision to bomb the facility late at night last Sept. 6, a move that was publicly denounced by Damascus but not by Washington.

    Sources familiar with the video say it also shows that the Syrian reactor core's design is the same as that of the North Korean reactor at Yongbyon, including a virtually identical configuration and number of holes for fuel rods. It shows "remarkable resemblances inside and out to Yongbyon," a U.S. intelligence official said. A nuclear weapons specialist called the video "very, very damning."

    Nuclear weapons analysts and U.S. officials predicted that CIA Director Michael V. Hayden's planned disclosures to Capitol Hill could complicate U.S. efforts to improve relations with North Korea as a way to stop its nuclear weapons program. They come as factions inside the administration and in Congress have been battling over the merits of a nuclear-related deal with North Korea.

    Syrian Ambassador Imad Moustapha yesterday angrily denounced the U.S. and Israeli assertions. "If they show a video, remember that the U.S. went to the U.N. Security Council and displayed evidence and images about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I hope the American people will not be as gullible this time around," he said.

    U.S. officials said that Israel shared the video with the United States before the Sept. 6 bombing, after Bush administration officials expressed skepticism last spring that the facility, visible by satellite since 2001, was a nuclear reactor built with North Korea's assistance. Israel has a nuclear weapons arsenal that it has never declared.

    But beginning today, intelligence officials will tell members of the House and Senate intelligence, armed services and foreign relations committees that the Syrian facility was not yet fully operational and that there was no uranium for the reactor and no indication of fuel capability, according to U.S. officials and intelligence sources.

    David Albright, president of Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) and a former U.N. weapons inspector, said the absence of such evidence warrants skepticism that the reactor was part of an active weapons program.

    "The United States and Israel have not identified any Syrian plutonium separation facilities or nuclear weaponization facilities," he said. "The lack of any such facilities gives little confidence that the reactor is part of an active nuclear weapons program. The apparent lack of fuel, either imported or indigenously produced, also is curious and lowers confidence that Syria has a nuclear weapons program."

    U.S. intelligence officials will also tell the lawmakers that Syria is not rebuilding a reactor at the Al Kibar site. "The successful engagement of North Korea in the six-party talks means that it was unlikely to have supplied Syria with such facilities or nuclear materials after the reactor site was destroyed," Albright said. "Indeed, there is little, if any, evidence that cooperation between Syria and North Korea extended beyond the date of the destruction of the reactor."

    The timing of the congressional briefing is nonetheless awkward for the Bush administration's diplomatic initiative to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear program and permanently disable the reactor at Yongbyon. The CIA's hand was forced, officials said, because influential lawmakers had threatened to cut off funding for the U.S. diplomatic effort unless they received a full account of what the administration knew.

    Also, the terms of a tentative U.S.-North Korean deal require that North Korean officials acknowledge U.S. evidence about its help with the Syrian program, and so the disclosures to Congress are meant to preempt what North Korea may eventually say.

    Following talks with the South Korean president last weekend, President Bush said that it was premature to make a judgment about whether North Korea was willing to follow through with a commitment to publicly declare its nuclear-related programs, materials and facilities.

    Washington and Pyongyang still differ over what should be included in that declaration, a State Department official said. Sung Kim, the State Department director of the Office of Korean Affairs, is in Pyongyang for discussions about the contents.

    Syria's top envoy to Washington said the CIA briefings were meant to undermine diplomatic efforts with North Korea, not to confront Syria. Why, Moustapha said, are "they repeating the same lies and fabrications when they were planning to attack Iraq? The reason is simple: It's about North Korea, not Syria. The neoconservative elements are having the upper hand."

    He added, "We do not want to plan to acquire nuclear technology as we understand the reality of this world and have seen what the U.S. did to Iraq even when it did not have a nuclear program. So we are not going to give them a pretext to attack Syria."

    Before the site was bombed, the facility included a tall, boxy structure like those used to house gas-graphite reactors and was located seven miles north of the desert village of At Tibnah in the Dayr az Zawr region, 90 miles from the Iraqi border, according to photographs released by the ISIS, a nonprofit research group.

    The White House and the CIA declined to comment on the briefings.
    Here's the Stratfor article:

    Source
    April 8, 2008
    Graphic for Geopolitical Intelligence Report

    By George Friedman

    The Arab-Israeli region of the Middle East is filled with rumors of war. That is about as unusual as the rising of the sun, so normally it would not be worth mentioning. But like the proverbial broken clock that is right twice a day, such rumors occasionally will be true. In this case, we don’t know that they are true, and certainly it’s not the rumors that are driving us. But other things — minor and readily explicable individually — have drawn our attention to the possibility that something is happening.

    The first thing that drew our attention was a minor, routine matter. Back in February, the United States started purchasing oil for its Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR). The SPR is a reserve of crude oil stored in underground salt domes. Back in February, it stood at 96.2 percent of capacity, which is pretty full as far as we are concerned. But the U.S. Department of Energy decided to increase its capacity. This move came in spite of record-high oil prices and the fact that the purchase would not help matters. It also came despite potential political fallout, since during times like these there is generally pressure to release reserves. Part of the step could have been the bureaucracy cranking away, and part of it could have been the feeling that the step didn’t make much difference. But part of it could have been based on real fears of a disruption in oil supplies. By itself, the move meant nothing. But it did cause us to become thoughtful.

    Also in February, someone assassinated Imad Mughniyah, a leader of Hezbollah, in a car bomb explosion in Syria. It was assumed the Israelis had killed him, although there were some suspicions the Syrians might have had him killed for their own arcane reasons. In any case, Hezbollah publicly claimed the Israelis killed Mughniyah, and therefore it was expected the militant Shiite group would take revenge. In the past, Hezbollah responded not by attacking Israel but by attacking Jewish targets elsewhere, as in the Buenos Aires attacks of 1992 and 1994.

    In March, the United States decided to dispatch the USS Cole, then under Sixth Fleet command, to Lebanese coastal waters. Washington later replaced it with two escorts from the Nassau (LHA-4) Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG), reportedly maintaining a minor naval presence in the area. (Most of the ESG, on a regularly scheduled deployment, is no more than a few days sail from the coast, as it remains in the Mediterranean Sea.) The reason given for the American naval presence was to serve as a warning to the Syrians not to involve themselves in Lebanese affairs. The exact mission of the naval presence off the Levantine coast — and the exact deterrent function it served — was not clear, but there they were. The Sixth Fleet has gone out of its way to park and maintain U.S. warships off the Lebanese coast.

    Hezbollah leaders being killed by the Israelis and the presence of American ships off the shores of Mediterranean countries are not news in and of themselves. These things happen. The killing of Mughniyah is notable only to point out that as much as Israel might have wanted him dead, the Israelis knew this fight would escalate. But anyone would have known this. So all we know is that whoever killed Mughniyah wanted to trigger a conflict. The U.S. naval presence off the Levantine coast is notable in that Washington, rather busy with matters elsewhere, found the bandwidth to get involved here as well.

    With the situation becoming tense, the Israelis announced in March that they would carry out an exercise in April called Turning Point 2. Once again, an Israeli military exercise is hardly interesting news. But the Syrians apparently got quite interested. After the announcement, the Syrians deployed three divisions — two armored, one mechanized — to the Lebanese-Syrian border in the Bekaa Valley, the western part of which is Hezbollah’s stronghold. The Syrians didn’t appear to be aggressive. Rather, they deployed these forces in a defensive posture, in a way walling off their part of the valley.

    The Syrians are well aware that in the event of a conventional war with Israel, they would experience a short but exciting life, as they say. They thus are hardly going to attack Israel. The deployment therefore seemed intended to keep the Israelis on the Lebanese side of the border — on the apparent assumption the Israelis were going into the Bekaa Valley. Despite Israeli and Syrian denials of the Syrian troop buildup along the border, Stratfor sources maintain that the buildup in fact happened. Normally, Israel would be jumping at the chance to trumpet Syrian aggression in response to these troop movements, but, instead, the Israelis downplayed the buildup.

    When the Israelis kicked off Turning Point 2, which we regard as a pretty interesting name, it turned out to be the largest exercise in Israeli history. It involved the entire country, and was designed to test civil defenses and the ability of the national command authority to continue to function in the event of an attack with unconventional weapons — chemical and nuclear, we would assume. This was a costly exercise. It also involved calling up reserves, some of them for the exercise, and, by some reports, others for deployment to the north against Syria. Israel does not call up reserves casually. Reserve call-ups are expensive and disrupt the civilian economy. These appear small, but in the environment of Turning Point 2, it would not be difficult to mobilize larger forces without being noticed.

    The Syrians already were deeply concerned by the Israeli exercise. Eventually, the Lebanese government got worried, too, and started to evacuate some civilians from the South. Hezbollah, which still hadn’t retaliated for the Mughniyah assassination, also claimed the Israelis were about to attack it, and reportedly went on alert and mobilized its forces. The Americans, who normally issue warnings and cautions to everyone, said nothing to try to calm the situation. They just sat offshore on their ships.

    It is noteworthy that Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak canceled a scheduled visit to Germany this week. The cancellation came immediately after the reports of the Syrian military redeployment were released. Obviously, Barak needed to be in Israel for Turning Point 2, but then he had known about the exercise for at least a month. Why cancel at the last minute? While we are discussing diplomacy, we note that U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney visited Oman — a country with close relations with Iran — and then was followed by U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. By itself not interesting, but why the high-level interest in Oman at this point?

    Now let’s swing back to September 2007, when the Israelis bombed something in Syria near the Turkish border. As we discussed at the time, for some reason the Israelis refused to say what they had attacked. It made no sense for them not to trumpet what they carefully leaked — namely, that they had attacked a nuclear facility. Proving that Syria had a secret nuclear program would have been a public relations coup for Israel. Nevertheless, no public charges were leveled. And the Syrians remained awfully calm about the bombing.

    Rumors now are swirling that the Israelis are about to reveal publicly that they in fact bombed a nuclear reactor provided to Syria by North Korea. But this news isn’t all that big. Also rumored is that the Israelis will claim Iranian complicity in building the reactor. And one Israeli TV station reported April 8 that Israel really had discovered Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, which it said had been smuggled to Syria.

    Now why the Bush administration wouldn’t have trumpeted news of the Syrian reactor worldwide in September 2007 is beyond us, but there obviously were some reasons — assuming the TV report is true, which we have no way of establishing. In fact, we have no idea why the Israelis are choosing this moment to rehash the bombing of this site. But whatever their reason, it certainly raises a critical question. If the Syrians are developing a nuclear capability, what are the Israelis planning to do about it?

    No one of these things, by itself, is of very great interest. And taken together they do not provide the means for a clear forecast. Nevertheless, a series of rather ordinary events, taken together, can constitute something significant. Tensions in the Middle East are moving well beyond the normal point, and given everything that is happening, events are moving to a point where someone is likely to take military action. Whether Hezbollah will carry out a retaliatory strike or Israel a pre-emptive strike in Lebanon, or whether the Israelis’ real target is Iran, tensions systematically have been ratcheted up to the point where we, in our simple way, are beginning to wonder whether something has to give.

    All together, these events are fairly extraordinary. Ignoring all rhetoric — and the Israelis have gone out of their way to say that they are not looking for a fight — it would seem that each side, but particularly the Americans and Israelis, have gone out of their way to signal that they are expecting conflict. The Syrians have also signaled that they expect conflict, and Hezbollah always claims there is about to be conflict.

    What is missing is this: who will fight whom, and why, and why now. The simple explanation is that Israel wants a second round with Hezbollah. But while that might be true, it doesn’t explain everything else that has happened. Most important, it doesn’t explain the simultaneous revelations about the bombing of Syria. It also doesn’t explain the U.S. naval deployment. Is the United States about to get involved in a war with Hezbollah, a war that the Israelis should handle themselves? Are the Israelis going to topple Syrian President Bashar al Assad — and then wind up with a Sunni government, or worse, an Israeli occupation of Syria? None of that makes a lot of sense.

    In truth, all of this may dissolve into nothing much. In intelligence analysis, however, sometimes a set of not-fully-coherent facts must be reported, and that is what we are doing now. There is no clear pattern; there is no obvious direction this is taking. Nevertheless, when we string together events from February until now, we see a persistently escalating pattern of behavior. In fact, what we can say most clearly is that there is escalation, without being able to say what is the clear direction of the escalation or the purpose.

    We would like to wrap this up with a crystal clear explanation and forecast. But we can’t. The motives of the various actors are opaque; and taken separately, the individual events all have quite innocent explanations. We are not prepared to say war is imminent, nor even what sort of war there would be. We are simply prepared to say that the course of events since February — and really since the September 2007 attack on Syria — have been startling, and they appear to be reaching some sort of hard-to-understand crescendo.

    The bombing of Syria symbolizes our confusion. Why would Syria want a nuclear reactor and why put it on the border of Turkey, a country the Syrians aren’t particularly friendly with? If the Syrians had a nuclear reactor, why would the Israelis be coy about it? Why would the Americans? Having said nothing for months apart from careful leaks, why are the Israelis going to speak publicly now? And if what they are going to say is simply that the North Koreans provided the equipment, what’s the big deal? That was leaked months ago.

    The events of September 2007 make no sense and have never made any sense. The events we have seen since February make no sense either. That is noteworthy, and we bring it to your attention. We are not saying that the events are meaningless. We are saying that we do not know their meaning. But we can’t help but regard them as ominous.
    Last edited by Caelius; April 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    What is missing is this: who will fight whom, and why, and why now. The simple explanation is that Israel wants a second round with Hezbollah. But while that might be true, it doesn’t explain everything else that has happened. Most important, it doesn’t explain the simultaneous revelations about the bombing of Syria. It also doesn’t explain the U.S. naval deployment. Is the United States about to get involved in a war with Hezbollah, a war that the Israelis should handle themselves?
    I'm pretty sure that absurd paragraph made the author lose all credibility, espeically the bit with the U.S. wanting to go to war with Hizbullah.
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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Whats absurd with Hezbollah and Israel going for round 2?
    They are currently on round 9 or ten.

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by kb8 View Post
    Whats absurd with Hezbollah and Israel going for round 2?
    They are currently on round 9 or ten.
    The whole paragraph is guess work, theres no way that Israel and Hezbollah will go at it again so soon. The situation is intense, yes, but its not on the level of war between Hizbullah and Lebanon, they both learned from the last one.
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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Glad they revealed this 8 months later than they should've.

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by Major.Stupidity
    I'm pretty sure that absurd paragraph made the author lose all credibility, espeically the bit with the U.S. wanting to go to war with Hizbullah.
    Care to explain?

    Sweeping statements look nice and all, but you'll have to do more than that if you want to make a good rebuttal.

    I don't think the author meant to say that the US would actively be fighting a war against Hezbollah anyway, especially when the Israelis have more experience dealing with them (not to mention the assets in place to do correctly), simply that b/c of the Syrian link to N. Korea, the US wouldn't be hesitant to involve itself in some way in order to secure it's interests.

    The whole paragraph is guess work, theres no way that Israel and Hezbollah will go at it again so soon.
    Based on what?

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    I don't think the author meant to say that the US would actively be fighting a war against Hezbollah anyway, especially when the Israelis have more experience dealing with them (not to mention the assets in place to do correctly), simply that b/c of the Syrian link to N. Korea, the US wouldn't be hesitant to involve itself in some way in order to secure it's interests.
    Well, seeing as how Israel's last war against Hizbullah didn't go so well, you'll have to forgive me if I'm a little cynical about Israel 'experience' of dealing with Hizbullah, let alone it being 'correctly' in any sort of way.

    Based on what?
    His series of sentences that end in questions, with assumptions being the answer. Its pretty weak coming from a foreign policy 'expert'.
    "The ABC of our profession, is to avoid large abstract terms in order to try to discover behind them the only concrete realities, which are human beings."
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  8. #8

    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    To the OP: I have thought about it too. Something might happen this summer.

  9. #9

    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    If Israel can have nukes then so can Syria and Iran. At least that's my opinion.

  10. #10

    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by killerxguy View Post
    If Israel can have nukes then so can Syria and Iran. At least that's my opinion.
    They can have them only on the condition that they use them, otherwise I'am not allowing it...

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Its so far fetched but i wouldn't even be surprised, my theory would have worked.The whole world will want nukes one day and you won;t be able to stop them all, at the same time i.e. India, Pakistan, Israel and N.Korea all got theirs secretly.

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    The only reason it's generally thought to have "not gone well" was because Hezbollah pulled off a media victory in light of their staggering military losses.

    Just because you may have a preference for them rather than Israel doesn't change that. Nor does it adequately counter any of the notions raised in either article.
    First of all, where did I say I favored Hizbullah, please do tell. Secondly, how can you claim that Israel achieved anything resembling victory in its 06' War, even the Israeli public would admit that they failed. Not only that, just because you favor Israel, doesn't mean they 'defeated' Hizbullah.
    Last edited by Major.Stupidity; April 25, 2008 at 07:03 PM.
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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Hey bigfootfred, you might as well include Mohamed ElBaradei, the director general of the international atomic energy agency, in your "WE" column.
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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnabyJones View Post
    Hey bigfootfred, you might as well include Mohamed ElBaradei, the director general of the international atomic energy agency, in your "WE" column.
    He hasnt just gone and disagreed with Washington has he? I bet he hates freedom.




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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    I don't know why everyone is taking Israels word on things...Israel also says that stone throwing is terrorism. The US has blamed all its enemies since WW2 are doing something evil and illegal, nothings new and nothings changed.

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by kb8 View Post
    I don't know why everyone is taking Israels word on things...Israel also says that stone throwing is terrorism. The US has blamed all its enemies since WW2 are doing something evil and illegal, nothings new and nothings changed.
    You could ask yourself this, why would Israel go to all the trouble of launching an airstrike into Syria to bomb an unused military base ? (Syrian description) What possible reason could they have for doing that ?

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshireman View Post
    You could ask yourself this, why would Israel go to all the trouble of launching an airstrike into Syria to bomb an unused military base ? (Syrian description) What possible reason could they have for doing that ?
    They could use it as an excuse for events in the "future", know your history, as it was claimed by Germany in 1939, it was Poland who invaded Germany, the Germans only shot back the next day...

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Well I hardly think that Israel is trying to provoke Syria into war, they have enough internal security problems, plus Gaza/Hezbollah Lebenese border etc. The last time that Israel launched a strike such as this was against the Iraqi's Osirik reactor facility in the 80's.

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    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshireman View Post
    You could ask yourself this, why would Israel go to all the trouble of launching an airstrike into Syria to bomb an unused military base ? (Syrian description) What possible reason could they have for doing that ?
    Why does Israel of many of the things it does? We don't know, and Israel doesn;t care what we think.

    but don;t you think that like last time when they bombed something they would advertise it that Syria were building something illegal to justify it?
    Why would Syria build a nuclear reactor near the Israeli border anyway?

  20. #20

    Default Re: N. Korea tied to Syrian attempt to build nuclear reactor

    Quote Originally Posted by kb8 View Post
    Why does Israel of many of the things it does? We don't know, and Israel doesn;t care what we think.

    but don;t you think that like last time when they bombed something they would advertise it that Syria were building something illegal to justify it?
    Why would Syria build a nuclear reactor near the Israeli border anyway?
    The site wasnt near the Israeli border it was north east part of Syria near Turkish and Iraq border quite a distance from Israel. Its why most think there is no way the strike happened without US support since it was so deep in Syria and Turkey isnt about to allow Israeli jets to use their airspace

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