The "Zeitgeist" Debunker's Toolkit

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Since this braindead piece of New Ager/conspiricist crap has taken the mantle of "Latest Hobby Horse for Woolly-minded Loons", here are some resources for those who want to counter those who regurgitate Zeitgeist: The Movie on this and other boards.

Unfortunately most of the links below are to Christian sites, since they have the most motivation to debunk Zeitgeist's whacky claims, but the information on them is sound despite this. They also tend to concentrate on the claims in the early part of Zeitgeist - there's no shortage of good sites showing that the 9/11 conspiracy babble is also complete junk.

The Zeitgeist of the 'Zeitgeist Movie'

Analysis and Response to Zeitgeist

"Zeitgeist" Online Movie: Part One Refuted

Isn't the Jesus story just a retelling or 'copycat' of earlier godmen stories?

Confronting the Copycat Thesis

Unfortunately I don't know of any website that debunks Zeitgeist's pseudo historical claims from a non-Christian perspective, but I do know from reading atheist fora like the Internet Infidels board that informed non-Christians recognise Zeitgeist as the New Age bollocks it is as well.

Please use the information in the links above as an antidote for anyone who has fallen for Zeitgeist's marketing and thinks it has any credibility outside of the tin-foil helmet brigade.

[Chaigidel]

been needing that around here, alotta victims to the zeitgeist movie creeping around on the internet

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Regarding 9/11 Conspiracy theories there's a nice section on this site, called "Science, Pseudoscience and Irrationalism" that deals with 9/11 conspiracy theories. Just go to the last links featured on this page and you'll find them, among other things worth reading.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pscindx.htm

I've not watched "Zeitgeist", but it seems to me it just repeats some old debunked claims in an attempt to stir controversy in touchy issues.

[LSJ]

Some conspiracies are well grounded in science and a lack of proof, but Zeitgeist is a pail full of theory and poorly supported claims. Plus some stuff that is just funny.

The part relating to Christ isn't so crazy though, because while there are mistakes in the film, the basic idea of Christ as portrayed in the bible was very common across the world in religions from the beginning of recorded history.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

The part relating to Christ isn't so crazy though, because while there are mistakes in the film, the basic idea of Christ as portrayed in the bible was very common across the world in religions from the beginning of recorded history.

If you (i) make your "parallels" broad enough, (ii) project stories about Jesus back onto earlier stories that aren't actually parallels at all, but make them look that way by some tricky use of language (eg referring to any kind of miraculous birth story as "virgin birth" even when they're nothing of the sort) and (iii) just make up parallels out of whole cloth and hope no-one checks them then you can make it look like there are all kinds of similarities across lots of religions. This is what Zeitgeist does.

In fact, when you filter out the examples which fall into categories (ii) and (iii) above you're left with a tiny handful of ones from category (i) - ones which are so broad they are essentially meaningless. Jesus had a story about his remarkable birth and so did other hero/god figures? Big deal - that's how humans tell stories. Ditto for the stories of his death etc.

These vague parallels and general narrative devices mean very little, but Zeitgeist pads them out with distortions and total fantasy to make it seem these parallels are more significant than they are and then spins a vast conspiracy theory out of them.

Unfortunately most people aren't familiar enough with the material to see that most of the "evidence" in the movie is crap and that the whole argument is contrived mumbo-jumbo pretending to be something profound.

[Ummon]

Jesus had a story about his remarkable birth and so did other hero/god figures? Big deal - that's how humans tell stories. Ditto for the stories of his death etc.

I make the premise that I ignore what Zeitgeist is. Then I must add that the thread seems somehow contradictory in itself.

This sentence is though agreeable with. Rare, when it comes to TG.

There would remain to be seen why this is how humans tell stories.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

I make the premise that I ignore what Zeitgeist is. Then I must add that the thread seems somehow contradictory in itself.

This sentence is though agreeable with. Rare, when it comes to TG.

There would remain to be seen why this is how humans tell stories.

These posts become even funnier if you read them in Yoda's voice. Try it: "This sentence is though agreeable with." See what I mean?

A laugh riot, this guy.

[Dayman]

As a friend of a Zeitgeist believer, I thank you for this opportunity to destroy him.

[Farnan]

This New Age bollocks is just the other end of a pendelum. Back in the past there was a tendency to accept everything because it was old, with the New Age stuff there is a tendency to reject everything because it is old. Both are very bad philosophies and should be regarded as the junk they are.

[MaximiIian]

This New Age bollocks is just the other end of a pendelum. Back in the past there was a tendency to accept everything because it was old, with the New Age stuff there is a tendency to reject everything because it is old. Both are very bad philosophies and should be regarded as the junk they are.

Precisely. The whole "film" is a load of unsubstantiated crap, just like PETA's "documentaries" and other such filth. Inasmuch as I can tell, very few people actually believe the claims that Zeitgeist makes. It is a load of Newage (rhymes with sewage) bull-crap.

My only concern is that stupid people take the New Agers defence of the idea that paganism directly influenced Christianity to mean that neopagans are compatible or synonymous with New Agers. I see this in action every time I go to a bookstore, and find the neopagan and Wiccan literature shelved in the New Age section. It really aggravates me that people make the two out to be the same thing, when in reality they are founded on two totally ideas, and are for the most part incompatible.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

My only concern is that stupid people take the New Agers defence of the idea that paganism directly influenced Christianity to mean that neopagans are compatible or synonymous with New Agers. I see this in action every time I go to a bookstore, and find the neopagan and Wiccan literature shelved in the New Age section. It really aggravates me that people make the two out to be the same thing, when in reality they are founded on two totally ideas, and are for the most part incompatible.

The kind of argument in this movie seems to appeal to a certain type of person: the kind that sees "connections" everywhere and instantly associates any kind of similarity (real, perceived or contrived) as evidence of a connection. These people seem drawn to New Age and esoteric ideas because they are based on an assumption of syncretism: the assumption that everything is connected and that the only people who can't see this are ones who are blinkered or ignorant.

The theme of syncretism comes up again and again in New Age and esoteric thought. There are pyramid-shaped buildings in both central America and Egypt? They must be connected! Never mind the fact that they are different in design, function, age and everything else and that pyramids are simply the easiest tall structures for early architects to build - the New Ager immediately sees connection because this kind of simplistic correspondence appeals to the way they think. The fact that this flies in the face of accepted academic knowledge just makes the appeal stronger, since these people also tend to associate accepted knowledge as being establishment ideas and, therefore, wrong.

Zeitgeist appeals to both this anti-establishment smugness and this simple-minded obsession with syncretism. Which is why some people will resist any efforts to debunk the movie, even if they can't produce a scrap of evidence to support it. They "know" it's right because it feels right.

[rodne]

Lol, such a joke of a film.

[Tajir]

I liked Zeitgeist a lot, but it was just too extreme.

I believed most of the movie, but the part about religion was total nonsense. It was so vague and unsupported. However, the 9/11 conspiracy part was great and I absolutely loved the part about the federal reserve.

[Dayman]

However, the 9/11 conspiracy part was great and I absolutely loved the part about the federal reserve.

That's vague and unsourced as well.

WATCH OUT THE RFID TAGS IN YOUR DVDS WILL TRACK YOU!

[Ummon]

We can laugh of certain people because of the order of their words, others on the other hand are funny because of their lack of ideas.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

I've never heared of this movie yet, checked your link, it seems to be a documentary more then a movie, wich is it? I'm not in the mood for a docu right now

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

I've never heared of this movie yet, checked your link, it seems to be a documentary more then a movie, wich is it? I'm not in the mood for a docu right now

It's a documentary. Kind of. A documentary of the "aliens built the pyramids/amazing truths hidden by the CIA and the Vatican but revealed now on this show/everything you ever believed is wrong, but we will now set you right/it's all a conspiracy/we know the real truth" kind. And it's hilariously bad.

[Denny Crane!]

These kind of beliefs are entirely understandable, as science gradually erodes old superstitions like ghosts, spirits, werewolves and other assorted oddments (like god lol); it is replaced by new superstitions. I think there is in some a gap, a vacuum, a superstition based hole that must be filled.

[Chaigidel]

when you compare something which is absolutely at the very least the universe and your existence to a fairy, you do yourself a great dishonor.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

I watched it a bit, didn't seem verry good to me, they also have a lot of pretty lights and effects and strange music wich for me imediatly takes away credibillity, also wat they said about Horus was new to me and I'm not really buying it. I hope for there sake they didn't bring up the anunaki theory of sitchin and that austrian fellow who wrote chariots of the gods. I'll watch it completely one day if I can bring myself to it.

Why did you post about this, are there really that many "believers"?