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Thread: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

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    Default Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    As usual the references in the text have had to be left out but I'm sure you can imagine where they'd be


    Why Did The Persian Army Fail To Conquer Mainland Greece in 480 B.C.?

    The Persian wars have been the subject of a great deal of scholarly endeavour. One particular element of discussion involves the search for the explanation as to how the massive Persian army came to be decisively defeated by a meagre federation of small city-states. It is unsatisfactory to take the ancient approach of Herodotus by merely placing the Greek forces as a superior fighting force or casting Xerxes as a foolish general who ruined the campaign. I intend to take a close look at both of the militaries involved before analysing the engagements and their consequences. It is imperative to understand the military of both combatants before any analysis of the battles can be made for the sole reason that taking the usual conception of Xerxes’ large but poor army will lead to a misunderstanding of the engagements involved. Since the weakness of the Persian army has dominated so much of the reasoning behind the Persian defeat I intend to intensely analyse the fighting forces of Xerxes. Due to the great similarity of the methods of naval warfare it is therefore possible to spend less time on the nature of the respective fleets. In the wider context of the results of certain battles contributing to the overall defeat of the Persian army I also want to identify why the battles went in favour of the victor.

    In 480 B.C. The Great King of the Persian Empire mounted a campaign that hoped to subdue all of Greece as a new Satrapy. However he was spurred on to this end by preceding events which had occurred during the reign of his father. During the reign of Darius the Persian Empire faced a revolt of the Ionian cities in the West of Asia Minor. In 499 B.C. the Ionians attempted to cede from the empire but they realised they would need the help of mainland Greek city-states in order to survive. To this end Aristagoras persuaded the Athenians and Eretrians to sail to Ionia and take part in the war against Persia . During the course of this expedition the Athenians and Eretrians managed to assault Sardis, the chief city of Asia Minor, and set it ablaze. Despite the Persians being able to exact revenge on the Greeks at the battle of Ephesus, it appears the Persian kings used this attack as a pretext for the invasion of mainland Greece . After the re-conquest of Ionia, Darius began to make expeditions further west. The first, under the command of Mardonius, was the successful incorporation of Thasos and Macedonia into the Persian Empire. This success was however marred by the storm off of Mount Athos that crippled the fleet and also an attack by the Brygian Thracian tribe that then had to be subdued . Even in this northern campaign Herodotus tells us that the Persians were using the acts of war from Athens and Eretria as the justification for their invasion . Two years later in 490 B.C. Darius ordered another expedition headed by Datis and Artaphernes to conquer the islands of the Aegean and restore Hippias to power in Athens. Herodotus would have us believe that this expedition was mounted in order to subdue all the Greeks who had refused Darius’ diplomatic overtures . However the force itself was too small for an invasion of that magnitude and furthermore the objective given to them was to place Hippias in power not a Persian satrap. The Persians succeeded in subduing the islands of Naxos, Delos and Euboea. However they were repulsed by the Athenians at Marathon. Nevertheless Darius had secured both the northern land routes and the maritime approaches to mainland Greece. With the success of these two campaigns he was now in an excellent position to make the final expedition to subdue all of Greece. However after four years of preparation he died leaving Xerxes on the throne. After dealing with rebellions in Egypt and Babylon, Xerxes was finally in a position to take advantage of the preparations that his father had made.

    If we want to understand why Xerxes was unable to complete the task of subduing Greece we must thoroughly examine the soldiers with which he endeavoured to succeed with. The traditional view of the Persian military offers little praise to their training, discipline or armament. Even the most recent of the books written about Xerxes’ invasion paints a dismal picture of the Persians being easily crushed by the Greek hoplites at Marathon . However a careful look at first the soldiers themselves and then their performance against hoplites will clearly show a contrasting image. It is often taken for granted that Greek soldiers were simply more disciplined than their eastern counter parts because they fought in a phalanx and the Persians did not. Green even comments that the Persian soldiers lacked any coherent discipline ! The universally overlooked point of contention is that the Persians also used a sophisticated formation on the battlefield. It simply wasn’t a phalanx.

    The Persian army was organised along a very strict decimal organisation that ran right from divisions of ten thousand men, known as a Baivarabam, to ten man squads which included two officers . The reports on the decimal organisation of the Persian army come from Herodotus’ description of Xerxes’ march out of Sardis and Xenophon who had the fortune of both fighting against and alongside the Persian military . His testimony is confirmed by Persian ration tablets found at Persepolis which give us both the original Persian names for the unit divisions and also confirm the evidence given to us that they were organised by tens . This level of close supervision ensured that a high level of military discipline and loyalty was maintained throughout the army as a whole. Moreover the command structure ensured that no soldier was far from an authority figure with the correct orders. This system worked all the way up to the supreme commander or even the Great King himself so no division, regiment or ten-man squad was left without orders or leadership. It also meant that the loss of the supreme commander did not mean ultimate loss for the rest of the army. It is traditionally supposed that the Persian army was too reliant on its commander’s presence on the field. This supposition comes originally from Herodotus’ description of Mardonius’ death at Platea but also the later examples of Darius III at the battles of Issus and Gaugamela. However this interpretation has found its way into modern scholarship as well . By contrast to this ideal we have multiple examples of the Achaemenid Persian army being able to maintain discipline and even fight on to victory after facing the loss of their commander. During the Ionian revolt the Persian general Artybios was charged with the re-conquest of Cyprus. During the land battle Herodotus specifically describes the death of Artybios at the hands of Onesilos and his Carian shield bearer but then goes on to state that Persians were able to go on to win the battle . Whilst the fate of the battle was certainly sealed by the retreat of Stesenor it is clear that the Persian force was able to maintain discipline and finish the fight without Artybios. Moreover, the command structure of the Persian army allowed for the allocation of separate theatres of battle to separate commanders. Because of this, Artabazos was able to keep his division in order after the rout of the Persians at Platea and get the entire corps to safety . Even during the retreat from the Spartans towards the Persian camp the Persian army was sufficiently disciplined by the remaining sub-officers to order the cavalry to screen the infantry’s retreat and get the infantry to rapidly mount the defences of the palisade before the raging Greek army was upon them. Thanks to the initiative and quick action of the army in flight the Persians were able to mount a heavy resistance at their camp until the walls were taken and despair overtook them . Finally the battle of Mycale paints an incredibly disciplined picture of Persian soldiers maintaining their position in the battle line and fighting on despite being assailed by the enemy and their previous allies . The last element of the command structure that was of great importance was the Persian system of field signs and standard bearers. Xenophon tells us that each commander had his own colours for his regiment . This is confirmed by the large amount of attic pottery depicting Persian standard bearers in states of defeat by hoplites . These field signs allowed both orders to be given easily and for messengers to find commanders quickly. Sophisticated communications systems can only be the mark of a well organised and disciplined war machine rather than the stereotypical mass of levy spearmen.

    The command structure of the army simply took the smallest tactical unit and scaled up to a strategic level. As such, to acquire a better understanding of the particular discipline the Persian army adhered to it is important to analyse their basic tactical unit named the Satabam. The Satabam was a one hundred man unit comprised of a combination of archers and spearmen commanded by a Satapatis. The spearmen formed up a solid shield wall whilst the remaining archers drew up in ranks behind them. Xenophon tells us the spearmen made up only the front two ranks of the unit . The one hundred men were divided into ten squads of ten men. This squad was called a Dathabam and was commanded by a Datapatis with his second in command, the Pascadatapatis. Under the supervision of these two command units the Dathabam was ordered into ranks and able to maintain the high level of discipline needed to sustain both a shield wall, an effective close quarters squad and a missile barrage in the same unit. The unit’s aim was to deploy within bowshot of the enemy and discharge their arrows as the enemy moved to engage them. The missile barrage was intended to throw the enemy into disarray and lower their morale before the shield bearers, or Sparabara, in the front ranks of the Satabam engaged and finished the enemy off with the help of flanking cavalry movements. However the Satabam was a flexible unit that could be used for multiple operations. During the Persian wars Iranian contingents fighting in the Satabam formation were deployed to fight exclusively as close quarters troops at Thermopylae, ahead of the heavily armed Lydian hoplites, Ionian hoplites or the well-armoured Assyrian soldiers, albeit with little success . This sort of organisation, even on a low level, is the opposite of the image that Green would have us believe.

    The individual arms of the Sparabara were light for the most part. Herodotus tells us that helmets were only worn by the cavalry of the Persian army . The Persian infantryman wore instead a felt cap upon his head. It is again another misinterpretation to say that the Persians went to war without defensive armour. Herodotus states the lack of Persian armour was the reason for their defeat at Platea . However earlier on in his description of the regular line infantry of the Persian army he states that they wore scale iron corslets . Masistus wore this same style of scale armour during a cavalry raid against the Greek position at Platea. What is interesting is that the Greeks were unable to pierce his armour with their spear thrusts and had to stab him in the eye . The most likely explanation for this contradiction is that the front two ranks of Spearmen in the Satabam wore this scale armour whilst the archers to the rear were much more lightly armoured. This corresponds exactly to many examples of attic pottery depicting the Persian invasion that show Persian archers wearing what appear to be linen cuirasses being assailed by hoplites . From the reliefs at Persepolis we can see that the Persian spear was about 2.2 metres long and had a counter weight at its butt instead of a spike . The feared Persian bow is also seen to be of the powerful re-curve design . The Persians are noted not have worn greaves like their Greek counterparts however the shields they took to war were of the tower design and as such covered their legs . The spara shield was designed primarily to protect the spearman against incoming missile fire from enemy troops. However it appears to have only been able to serve as viable protection for a short while against concentrated enemy heavy infantry. The battle of Mycale is an excellent example of the Persian Spara being very effective whilst upright but prone to crumble after repeated efforts to break though . What we can infer from this is that the Persian line infantry were not supposed to be engaged in a melee for prolonged periods of time. Instead, when facing close combat troops the Persian line was to hold until the cavalry could flank the enemy, charge and win the day. This was exactly how a Persian army defeated Histaios and his army of hoplites at Malene . The cavalry of the Persian army were in Herodotus’ words “armed like the infantry .” However, Xenophon’s later description of the Persian cavalry has them using javelin’s rather than bows and arrows. This is in accordance with the seal of Cyrus the first, which depicts a mounted soldier discharging javelins at his enemy and also a document of the later 5th century describing the equipment a cavalryman was supposed to carry including two spears . In this way it is possible that the Persian cavalry included units using both the Javelin and the bow. Herodotus specifically states that the cavalry Mardonius commanded fired both at the Greeks however the mounted archers would likely have been the Scythian contingents which Herodotus praised as the best of the horsemen.

    The reason for the development of the Persian infantry as light armed in comparison to the Greek hoplites has very much to do with the geography of their homeland and the social structure of their society. Unlike a Greek city-state, the Persian feudal society left very little room for a comfortable middle class to emerge that could afford sophisticated arms and armour. By contrast the Persians relied on a system of granting land to subjects in return for military service. The King would grant certain subjects a military estate named as either a “Bow Estate,” “Horse Estate” or “Chariot Estate.” The mention of “chariot estates” almost certainly means the system of military colonisation, known as the “Hatru” from the Murasu archive, was present before the Persian conquest under the Assyrians . The commoners would be rewarded after their military service which Strabo , Xenophon and Herodotus all maintain that Persian youths undertook once they had matured. Whilst they disagree upon the age that the Persian youths would be incorporated into the army, they all agree that after their years of service they would be de-mobilised but remain liable for military service. It was during this period of demobilisation that the Persians were rewarded with land grants that identified how they fought. The King thus kept his people dependent on him and tied to the land which he personally granted them. As such the class divisions that arose came specifically from those on estates large enough to support a cavalryman’s wage against those on a simple infantryman’s plot. Above all of this of course being the nobility with their personal estates and retinues. Examples of these noble units and bodyguards are plentiful in Herodotus as his description of Xerxes’ army on the march shows us four separate regiments, or Hazarabam, of one thousand noble Persians . Moreover he describes possibly one of these regiments or Mardonius’ personal retinue fighting at Platea . Herodotus describes this noble Hazarabam with much praise, which suggests that they could afford far better equipment and a greater level of training in war. However for the simple soldier tending a “Bow estate” there left very little room for personal aggrandizement and the development of a class able to afford more luxuries or battle equipment than that which they were accustomed to. Nonetheless the geographical nature of the Persian Empire dictated that the light equipment of the Sparabara and archer was in fact the most efficient and tactical for the jobs at hand. All too often it is assumed that the Greeks were simply technologically superior to the Persian army and this was the reason that they favoured heavier arms . However this completely ignores the fact that on the wide-open and sun-smitten plains of the Middle East, a heavily armed and armoured infantryman was simply a very slow and undoubtedly exhausted target for cavalry and light missile troops. When Xenophon’s ten thousand mercenary hoplites of the ill-fated expedition to mount prince Cyrus upon the throne found themselves on a perilous journey home through Asia, Xenophon wisely ordered the creation of both a cavalry unit and the promotion of the use of missile weapons like the sling . Thusly the fugitive Greeks were able to ward off harassing cavalry and missile attacks from their enemies on the plains. Hence what we can note is that the Persian army evolved its equipment to face as many different types of combat as there were different types of terrain in the empire. The idea that they were unable to compete with the advanced Greek methods of war is hence invalid.

    As has been mentioned, Persian society lacked the means to produce a middle class capable of affording better quality arms and armour. However the Persian Kings dealt with this inherent problem in feudal monarchy by creating and supporting a standing army that was in attendance of the Great king. The so-called “Immortals” constituted a Baivarabam of picked Persian infantry that was armed and adorned by the richest standards in the army after the nobility . However the name “Immortals” is almost certainly a mistake on Herodotus’ part. Weishofer believes that Herodotus mistook ‘Anusyia,’ the Persian word for ‘attendant’, for ‘Anausa,’ meaning ‘Immortal .’ What is interesting to note is that Herodotus’ clear distinction made for these soldiers is that their unit was always kept up to full strength. This hints at the idea that the other Persian Baivarabam’s were prone to falling under strength. This is a theory that is confirmed by some Aramaic documents found in the Persian garrison at Aswan. Ration documents issued to the soldiers allow us to reconstruct the number of men present and shows that at least one Satabam had fallen to only fifty or sixty men . Their repeated depiction in the Persian royal palaces of Susa and Persepolis suggest that during peacetime they were in permanent attendance on the King. As such they did not have farms to return to or harvests to collect. The repeated colour schemes on the reliefs at Susa have given rise to the idea that the King issued them uniforms and as such their armour and equipment could well have been personally provided by the king as well. Even if this were not so it is clear from Herodotus that they were afforded large salaries and luxuries and as such would clearly have been able to afford the sort of scale cuirasses that Masistus wore and Herodotus describes for the Persian infantry. Moreover the Persepolis reliefs show the guardsmen depicted with wooden shields rather than wickerwork Spara. It is clear these shields are wooden since they are rimmed with metal and embossed with a circular bronze emblem in the centre. One such boss, which clearly mimics the designs at Persepolis, was found at the Heraion of Samos . In this way we can see that this regiment was equipped to be able to sustain much more protracted melee battles as well as being able to discharge missiles.

    It is not necessary to dwell on the subject troops, which Xerxes levied for the great expedition as only the Iranian contingents, and those who fought in their style, along with the Scythian horse archers ever actually engaged the Greeks. Now that we have a good understanding of the troops which Xerxes relied upon to win his battles we must investigate the troops that he expected to defeat. Unlike the Persians the Greeks were not a unified state that was able to present a single concentrated military effort. On the contrary the Greek city-states were a collection of warring factions with a great history of enmity. To this end the Greeks were obviously not united in their desire to fight Xerxes’ army and there were many cases of Greek states joining the Persians if only to gain a great advantage in fighting their rivals. Thebes is an excellent example of a state that committed itself to Xerxes in order to assert supremacy over the Athenians . The two states which presented the greatest threat to the Persian expedition were Athens and Sparta. Moreover these states mainly took the prestige of commanding the defence of Greece. As such it is important to investigate the structure and armament of their militaries but since the other Greek city-states fought in a similar fashion to the Athenians it is not necessary to cover all of them. The Athenian army was structured around the commander, or Polemarch, a body of generals, or Strategoi, and the hoplites at their disposal. There were ten Strategoi, in the Athenian army at Marathon, who were elected to their position by the citizen’s assembly. Burn stresses that the Athenian Polemarch was originally an elected position that gave permanent authority over the war council. Herodotus actually reports the opposite however Burn illustrates that the method of selecting the Polemarch changed in 487 B.C. and Herodotus was unaware of the old system . The method of selecting the Polemarch during the time of Xerxes’ great invasion was the selection by lot for the position from five hundred prominent Athenian citizens . The Polemarch did not have the supreme authority of a Persian general but was instead a strong voice on the Athenian council of war. Herodotus reports the Athenian army at marathon was the victim of much delay due to the inability of the generals to agree until the Polemarch overruled their stalemate. On the field it appears the Polemarch took command of the rightwing and the rest of the Athenians were drawn up according to their tribes along the battle line with the Strategoi acting as sub officers . The Greek method of making war was essentially to draw up the troops in a battle line and march to engage the enemy at close quarters until they could be broken. As such the Greeks of this era had little use for field signs or standard bearers since they were never expected to perform battlefield manoeuvres more complex than the initial charge.

    The Athenian battle line was almost exclusively made up of hoplites that formed up as a single hoplite phalanx. This formation was designed to present a unified and unbreakable front of spears to destroy the enemy in close combat. The staple element of the phalanx was the hoplite’s shield. The large Aspis was held up and positioned in a way which meant that its mass protected half of the carrier’s body and half of the soldier to his left . In this way the Greeks encouraged and affected a very tightly packed formation covered by a wall of large wooden shields overlaid with bronze. The hoplite’s spear was around 2.5 metres long, giving him about a three-foot advantage in length against the Persian troops of Xerxes. The hoplite phalanx’s ultimate purpose was to charge with great ferocity at the enemy and force them to rout. For hoplites the ‘charge’ phase of the battle appears to have been most decisive with entire battles sometimes depending on the courage and strength of a line to withstand the charge and not break in fear . The ability to deploy in the phalanx formation required a high level of discipline. Not only in order to retain the cohesion of the unit, but also to keep the soldier focused during the horrifying moments of the initial clash . The phalanx relied so utterly upon unity that a single man breaking and abandoning his post in the line could shatter the entire enterprise through either the spread of panic or the exploitation of the gap in the phalanx by the enemy . However if the line presented a united front it was incredibly difficult to break head on. The typical hoplite was armed with a spear and shield as we have seen but he also carried a thrusting sword in case his spear broke. His defensive means rested largely upon his and his comrade’s shields; nonetheless he also wore a heavy bronze helmet of varied design. In addition to this the hoplite wore bronze greaves on his shins and a cuirass over his chest. During the time of Xerxes’ invasion leather or linen jerkins reinforced with metal scales were becoming more predominant than the heavier bell cuirass’ of bronze . Comparatively, a hoplite was far more heavily armoured than the Persians of Xerxes’ army due mainly to the use of the helmet and large bronze covered shield rather than the actual cuirasses worn. It was this distinction that led Herodotus to remark that the Persian lack of defensive armour was their downfall at Platea . Quite why modern authors like Green have taken this literally is a matter of great confusion . Nevertheless the hoplites training and armour were directed specifically and solely for close combat fighting. When the Greeks were able to offer battle on terms that negated the Persians their use of manoeuvre and cavalry the hoplites were then able to restrict the battle to purely head on, close quarters terms in which they held the advantage. In situations such as Thermopylae this was precisely what the Greeks did and why they were able to fight so successfully on the first two days. The key point is that the Greeks were better armed and trained for a specific and limited type of warfare not simply better trained. The typical hoplite’s training was in the rudimentary battle drills needed to form a battle line . Indeed one of the most telling sources for the training of hoplites in Greece is that the Spartans were not conspicuous for having been trained so heavily, but for having been trained at all . The Spartans were a great exception amongst the Greeks for the level of military training and courage they displayed. They were armed and armoured in very much the same way as the rest of the Greeks. They even fought in exactly the same hoplite phalanx. What distinguished them from their neighbours was their utter devotion to perfecting the phalanx and honing themselves to be perfect warriors. Thucydides highlights the fact that from birth they endured a great amount of training in the ways of war and contrasts this with the comparative lack of training the Athenians enjoyed . Their devotion to following orders to the point of sacrificing their lives is a point illustrated with magnificence at Thermopylae and their discipline is well attested by Herodotus throughout his work . Their command structure differed from the Athenians in that they followed the orders of the King who was on campaign with them. However, no general in Greece could have had experience for the sort of full-scale war which Xerxes was bringing to them.

    The respective navies of the two forces used very similar technology. Both navies utilised the trireme, which was a warship of considerable ingenuity. It allowed for one hundred and fifty oarsmen to take positions on a ship no larger than the outdated Pentekonter that only allowed for fifty oarsmen . The Persian fleet reputedly carried thirty marines aboard their ships but it has been asserted that there is no reason for this to have been more than the Greek ships . A major difference between the constructions of the two navies is the assertion by Herodotus that the Greek ships were of a heavier build . However the main difference between the forces was the comparative size of the Persian fleet. Herodotus gives us the figure of 1,207 triremes but scholars such has Hignett bring that figure down to just 600 warships . The exact figure is not necessary to illustrate how they came to be defeated but what is important is that at the outset the Persians held a convincing numerical advantage over the Greeks.

    The greatest misconception about the reason for the defeat of Xerxes in Greece is the, sadly still evoked, idea that the hoplite phalanx was a shocking new discovery to the Persian army in mainland Greece . It is a theory that relies on both the idea that the phalanx was utterly superior to the Satabam but also the absurd notion that the Persian army had never seen or fought a hoplite phalanx before they began operations in mainland Greece. It is unfortunate that only Lazenby addresses this problem head on and identifies specifically the cases of Persian victories over Greek arms . Holland’s notion is the extreme form of a simpler misconception that the hoplite phalanx was the superior formation and the Persians were foolish not to adopt it after Marathon . Both of these ideas attempt to explain away Xerxes’ defeat by asserting that the Persian army simply couldn’t stand up to a phalanx formation either because they had never seen one before or because they refused to adapt to it. However we have ample evidence to prove that the Persians faced hoplite phalanxes on multiple occasions before the expeditions of Darius and Xerxes and moreover specific examples of victory in every case bar one. The Persians first encounter with hoplites was almost certainly in the war between Cyrus and Croesus of Lydia. Herodotus specifically states that the Lydians of Xerxes’ army fought in a manner “very closely resembling the Hellenes ” but even more overt is the reference to the Ionian Greeks in Croesus’ army . After this encounter the Persian army was then used to conquer the Greek cities on the coast of Asia Minor and also the nation of the Carians who are reported to have pioneered essential parts of the hoplite’s panoply like the shield handle which positioned the shield over only half of the soldiers body . The Carians thus having been described as fighting with armour and spears but also the essential hoplite’s shield can be said with some certainty to at least have resembled a hoplite phalanx. At the very least they appear to have been heavily armed close combat troops and thus exactly the sort of troops that the Persians are still said to have been unable to withstand . Under the leadership of Cambyses the Persians engaged and defeated the Egyptian army of Psammenitos which Herodotus specifically tells us contained Greek and Carian mercenaries . A fact that the most modern of commentators on the Persian wars discreetly passes over . The Persians were still defeating hoplite armies in the field much closer to the time of the expeditions onto the mainland. During the Ionian revolt the Persian general Daurises is reported to have defeated a large Carian army at the river Marsyas inflicting ten thousand casualties on the armoured soldiers . If this were not proof enough the same general was able to defeat the surviving Carians and their newly arrived Milesian allies causing even more casualties than the previous battle . Even if we do not cast the Carians as hoplites it is very clear that the Greeks from Miletus were worsted by the Persian method of making war. Lastly the case of the battle at Ephesus tells us that the Ionians were not simply inferior troops to the mainland Greeks as Athenians too were defeated by Persian arms in Asia . As such we have to dismiss entirely the view of Green and others that the Persians were worsted in Xerxes’ invasion by the inherent superiority of the phalanx and it’s heavily armed troops . A final note on the superior armament of the Greeks concerns Hignett’s view that the Persians refused to learn their lesson after their defeat at Marathon and this was Xerxes’ downfall. This view does not take into account the assessment that the Persians would have made of the defeat. In the centre of the battle where the Iranian contingents were actually placed they had been triumphant over the Athenian phalanx . To the Persian high command the battle was lost by the halfhearted performance of the Ionians they had conscripted to fight on the wings . The Persians had absolutely no reason not to be confident in their forces as they marched into Greece and Xerxes could be assured that he was going up against an enemy which Persians had faced and defeated many times in the past.

    Now that we have identified and defeated the largest misconceptions about the reasons for the Persian defeat we can turn to the real reasons for the failure of Xerxes’ army. The campaign itself began brilliantly with the slow march into Europe being uncontested for a great deal of time. Since the Greek army sent to defend the north of Greece had found the Tempe gorge indefensible the route to Greece had been left open all the way to the joint defence of Thermopylae and Artemision. The battle to turn the pass of Thermopylae would prove to be the first real challenge to Xerxes’ expedition outside of the prior logistical preparations that had to be made. The battle was to be the site of history’s most famous ‘last stand .’ For some, the incredible display of self-sacrifice made by the Spartan’s final stand has led modern scholars to desperately try to find some cause or achievement that Leonidas aimed for. Cartledge in particular espouses the idea that Leonidas’ heroism inspired the surviving Greeks to unity and courage . Thus we are brought to the idea that the Persian army was driven out of Greece in failure because the last stand of the Spartans had steeled the nationalist Greeks to fight even more patriotically against the invader. In truth, however, the aftermath of Thermopylae would see the Greeks fragmenting and some even advocating all out flight. Herodotus tells us that as soon as the Greek fleet at Artemision had heard of the disaster at Thermopylae they retreated south. They got there only to find that the Peloponnesians had abandoned Attica and Athens with it to her fate . The Peloponnesians who had been expected to make a stand in Boeotia for all of Greece had instead bottled themselves up behind the Isthmus. After Athens was aflame the fleet was on the verge of disintegrating. Some commanders endeavoured to escape before a council could even be taken . The council itself meanwhile was fraught with argument and even threats of fleeing all the way to Italy . Thus we see the effect that Leonidas and his brave few men had on the remaining Greeks. The real inspiration for the stand at Platea was the Athenian’s furious warning that they would be forced to surrender without allied help . In the end it took the threat, however sincere, to betray the Greek cause to unite the Greeks to stand at Platea rather than a heroic gesture of patriotism . Green suggests that the battles offered at Artemision are greatly worthy of mention as contributors to the Persian defeat. Burn agrees if not simply for the casualties inflicted by the Greeks themselves but mostly because of the terrible storms that the Persians were forced to endure in that position . Moreover the casualties that the imperial fleet took at this juncture proved to be instrumental in deciding the course of the war. Since the Persian fleet had lost four hundred ships trying to force their way through Artemision they were now unable to split their naval forces and attack the Greeks from separate directions because they would be left at almost equal numbers with the allied Greek fleet . Herodotus specifically has Demaratus outline an excellent plan for the success of Xerxes’ invasion only to have Achamenes deny the idea due to the losses incurred at Artemision . However, the greatest losses the navy incurred were suffered during a storm on the way to Artemision . A route the Persian fleet would have had to have taken whether the Greek navy was awaiting them or not. Moreover the one hundred and twenty ships that were destroyed by a storm whilst attempting to flank the Greek position seem to be an entirely implausible story. Hignett superbly argues that the Persian fleet had just escaped a disastrous storm and the last thing they would have ordered was a very long and exceedingly exposed voyage to flank a foe that had not even been tested in a straight fight . With these considerations in mind the battles at Artemision and the affect the Greek position and on the outcome of the war boil down to the extent of casualties inflicted by the fleet itself. In the first battle Herodotus tells us the Greeks captured thirty Persian ships . However in the second we are only left with the impression that both sides suffered heavy casualties. As such we cannot state that the Greek fleet did a great deal of damage to the Persians without suffering a great amount itself and in a war of attrition the larger Persian fleet had the advantage. Nonetheless it is essential to identify the fact that after breaking through Artemision the Persian fleet no longer had enough warships to attempt what could have been a very powerful divide and conquer strategy. This can to a great extent be put down to the terrible storm that devastated the Persian fleet. However it is equally plausible that the great demonstration of seamanship displayed by the Greek navy was disconcerting enough to the Persian high command for them to refuse to engage the Greek fleet without a convincing advantage in numbers.

    Whilst the events at Artemision ensured the Persian fleet could no longer divide its forces the battle at Salamis well and truly ensured that the Persian fleet would have to retreat from Greek waters. The key point in the battle of Salamis is whether the Greeks skilfully won a great victory or the Persian command’s decisions created the disaster for Xerxes? A popular theory for the defeat at Salamis concerns the idea that the Persians had no need to even fight a battle and did so only out of pride . Lazenby argues the Persians were too eager to finish the Greek navy off and thus entered a battle which offered all of the advantages, bar numbers, to the enemy fleet. If we accept this theory then, since Salamis had a large affect on the campaign as a whole, we can attribute a great deal of the blame for the failure of the campaign on Xerxes himself for ordering the attack. However Hignett argues that a victory at Salamis was necessary to the Persian campaign’s progress. Since the Greek fleet had taken up a position that flanked the Persian advance Xerxes couldn’t order an attack on the Isthmus without exposing his fleet and supply ships . Thus the Persians were left in a position where they had to defeat the Greek fleet before they proceeded. In fact Hignett’s theory hinges on the idea that an army group detached to engage the Greeks at the Isthmus would have to rely on naval re-supply rather than overland routes. If Mardonius was capable of surviving in Greece entirely without the fleet then an army group with overland supply lines could quite easily march to the Isthmus and make do if the rest of the army was utilising the supply fleet’s resources. Since we have Herodotus reporting that most of the Greek fleet was originally eager to escape to the Isthmus and avoid battle at Salamis we also have to take the idea of Salamis as a strategic masterstroke lightly . Thus we are left with the simpler idea that the Persians were too eager to be done with the sea fight and wilfully entered a battle that negated the advantages of their more manoeuvrable ships. If we accept the view of Hignett that the Persian fleet at Salamis was only of a marginally larger size than the Greek then the tactical error of Xerxes is even more glaring . However it must be noted that the Persians could have quite possibly have believed the Greeks to have undertaken a strategic position at Salamis. The battle itself was won by the heavier ships superior ramming capability that was the main factor of any sea battle in confined waters. To this end Lazenby highlights the lack of mention of any Greek vessels capturing Persian ships by boarding them . Whilst the Greeks expected the Persians to fight the next day , this tells us the Persian fleet still contained considerable numbers, it appears the Persian admiral’s spirit was broken. Or quite possibly the Greeks had underestimated the amount of casualties they had inflicted on the Persians. Whatever the cause the Persians had decided that after the battle of Salamis they were forced onto a defensive war at sea and withdrew to guard against attacks in Asia Minor and the empire itself . The flight of the Persian warships meant that the naval supply ships were no longer safe in the Aegean and Xerxes’ logistical operation was now in great jeopardy. With the supply train diminished and the empire itself under suspicion of attack or revolt Xerxes too was forced to retreat with the main part of his army to maintain an imposing presence in Ionia. Thus the great success the Greeks won at sea directly impacted the fight for supremacy on land. The battle of Salamis is regarded by many as the turning point in the war because at this point, with the Isthmus heavily guarded, it would be extremely difficult to conquer Greece whilst the city-states remained united .

    What we are left with is the final confrontation that sealed the fate of the Persian expedition. The usual arguments for why Platea was a Greek victory lie in the realm of Greek military advancement and inherent superiority. These arguments have been soundly dealt with above and as such cannot be taken into account when analysing the battle at Platea. However, perhaps the greatest reason for the defeat of the Persian army was the very ideal of Greek unity in the face of the barbarian. Mardonius offered Athens an exceedingly prestigious place in the Persian empire if they defected to the king and since the Peloponnesians had boarded themselves up behind the Isthmus the Athenians had a great deal of occasion to accept the Persian offer. However, in a move of inspiring patriotism the Athenians refused on the plain terms that they simply would not accept any foreign rule . With this brave stroke the Athenians denied Mardonius the use of their fleet and crushed his hopes of turning the defences at the Isthmus. Nonetheless the Athenians were forced to use these diplomatic overtures to sting the Peloponnesians into action and march north to face the Persians in open battle . The course of the campaign became a stalemate as both commanders realised that if they advanced to attack they would be offering battle on terms that favoured the enemy . The two great reasons for the Persian defeat at Platea are recorded by Herodotus as Mardonius’ stubborn and overly aggressive offensive and the lack of defensive armour for the Persians . However Hignett points out that Herodotus is relating the story of Platea without considering the events of the Greek fleet in Asia Minor. Thus Mardonius justifiably needed a swift and superb victory to crush all thoughts of rebellion by the Greeks in the empire . We have already dealt with the idea that the Persians fighting with the Spartans were un-disciplined and un-armoured but it remains to be clarified as to why Herodotus would say this. The most likely explanation is that they were simply un-armoured in comparison to the Spartans since they disdained helmets and greaves. The question of discipline can be answered by the idea that Herodotus’ use of the word discipline refers specifically to the use of the phalanx rather than overall military discipline. The Spartan victory depended on breaking the Persian line head on. However Herodotus clearly states the battle raged for a long time which would obviously contradict the idea that the Persians were completely undone by the heavy phalanx. The length of the battle can be easily explained by the fact that the Spartans had to fight through two ranks of armoured spearmen before they got to the ranks of archers which would adequately fit Herodotus’ description of un-armoured troops. Since the turning point of the battle is described as the point at which Mardonius is killed it can be argued that Mardonius was to blame for allowing himself to be put into danger. However the lack of cavalry mentioned during the melee stage of the battle means that Pausanius must have had the foresight to halt his retreating troops at a position that secured his flanks . Hignett supposes that the Persian cavalry would not have intervened during the melee as they were missile troops but this is at complete variance with our account of the battle of Malene. With his flanks secure Pausanius had restricted the battle to a head on melee. The Spartans held every advantage in this sort of fight and as such the Spartan victory was a matter of time whether Mardonius was alive or not. On the right wing the Athenians were arrayed against fellow Greeks fighting for Persia. The phalanx battle that took place favoured the Athenians. Burn indicates that the reason for the Athenian victory was in fact the return of the Greek central units that distracted the Theban cavalry . With the Persians defeated on the left wing and the Medizing Greeks routed on the right by the diversion of their cavalry to the Greek centre, we have to wonder why the Persian centre refused to engage. With a force that could have tipped the battle in the favour of the Persians Artabazos instead hung back and withdrew once the Persians had been routed . This behaviour has not been characterised as cowardice but either an inability to reach the battle in time or the fact that his force was checked and marked by the Greek centre . The theory that he had to march up the Asopus ridge and was thus slowed down lends credence to the idea that he was too slow to reach the fighting but we have already heard Herodotus say the battle lasted a long time. What remains is possibly a delayed march by Artabazos followed by indecision as to where to intervene because of the returning Greek centre. It is also possible that whilst Artabazos waited for the Persians to rout he may have been expecting it to happen since the Spartan position was so secure. In short the fighting at Platea was decided by the excellent discipline of the Spartans in halting or affecting a fighting retreat towards secure ground before they engaged the Persian infantry. The fighting on the Persian right flank was decided by the lack of Artabazos’ troops that led the Thebans to thin their chances of success by attacking the approaching Greek centre. We cannot lay the blame on Mardonius who was pressured into the attack or the weakness of the Persian soldiers who were simply fighting out of their element on unsuitable terrain.

    In conclusion the causes for the Persian defeat in Greece were set in motion by the terrible storms en route to, and the casualties inflicted during, the battle of Artemision that meant the Persians could no longer split their naval force. At this juncture the Persians believed they were forced to neutralise the Greek fleet before they could continue the fight on land at the Isthmus. The heavier Greek ships and their superior ability to ram in confined waters won the battle of Salamis. The consequences of this battle forced the Persians out of the Aegean and left the expedition in the hands of Mardonius and his reduced land army. At this point the courage and firm resolve of the Athenians saved all of Greece by refusing Mardonius’ offers. Spartan arms at Platea won the final victory where they contrived to fight the Persians in circumstances that gave them the advantage.


    Bibliography -

    Herodotus, The Histories, 5.97, Barnes and Noble Classics, 2004

    A. R. Burn, Persia and The Greeks, Edward Arnold Publishers Ltd, 1962

    J. F. Lazenby, The Defence of Greece, 243, Aris and Phillips Ltd, 1993

    C. Hignett, Xerxes’ Invasion of Greece, Oxford University press, 1963

    Peter Green, The Greco-Persian Wars, University of California Press, 1968

    Paul Cartledge, Thermopylae, Macmillan, 2006

    J. F. Lazenby, The Spartan Army, Aris and Phillips Ltd, 1985

    Tom Holland, Persian Fire, Little, brown, 2005

    Jack Cassin-Scott, The Greek and Persian Wars, Osprey Publishing, 1977

    Strabo, Geography,William Heinemann Ltd, 1930

    Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, Penguin Books Ltd, 1954

    Robin Waterfield, Xenophon’s Retreat, Faber and Faber Ltd, 2006

    Nicholas Sekunda, The Persian Army 560–330 BC, Osprey Publishing, 1992

    Josef Weishofer, Ancient Persia, I.B Tauris and Co Ltd, 1996

    Pierre Briant, The Persian Empire From Cyrus to Alexander, Librairie Artheme Fayard, 1996

    Maria Brosius, The Persian Empire From Cyrus to Artaxerxes, The London Association of Classical Teachers, 2000

    Arrian, The Campaigns of Alexander, Penguin Classics, 1958

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    In technical matters a very good article Rez, very well researched, detailed, and in most cases balanced and fair to both sides.


    As such we have to dismiss entirely the view of Green and others that the Persians were worsted in Xerxes’ invasion by the inherent superiority of the phalanx and it’s heavily armed troops
    It's when you make a dismissal like this, in two sentences and in a quick breath at the end of a nondescript paragraph, that a big warning sign jumps up in the air.


    Earlier in the article, you write,

    Quote Originally Posted by rez View Post
    Comparatively, a hoplite was far more heavily armoured than the Persians of Xerxes’ army due mainly to the use of the helmet and large bronze covered shield rather than the actual cuirasses worn.
    This statement, while entirely true in itself, encapsulates the fundamental mistake of your analysis -- your pervasive focus on the hoplite's armor as his most distinctive characteristic. This was never his distinctive characteristic, and if you clad a rank Persian in heavy armor he would still lose in head-to-head combat against him. The distinctive feature of the hoplite was his war ethic, and that is what the Greeks themselves thought was the most important thing to focus on, and the most crucial part of their way of war. They never focused with such a persistent interest on precise details of the hoplite's armor; there were never Greek poets singing praiseful songs about the tactical length of the hoplite spear, its dimensions down to a decimal point, they never lauded its tactical qualities, or extol people to make spear length even longer and effect the tactical 'advantage' to be even more pronounced. You know this right? I'm sure you know Greek poetry, they couldn't have had all of your external issues further from their mind. Armor hardly played a role in what they considered the most important, and were able to go into battle with just their shield, being otherwise completely naked, and still consider their basic premise as a hoplite fulfilled: and that is the posession of the hoplite ethic, the conscious emphasis on mentally unendurable vicious close combat, something that you apply hardly any attention to at all. That is why the hoplite was superior, and what made him win. Interestingly you did make an observation of the martial ethic, suppose as a matter of scholarly self-respect to observe that you know aspects like that, but commenting in just one stray sentence, and without attaching any further importance to it whatsoever.

    That is why you miss, I think, the central lesson of why the Greeks won, and why yes, the hoplite way of war was the better one of the two. You make far too emphasis on the external attributes: the heavy armor, the middle class, all valid points in themselves. What you miss is the central desire, goal of every successful hoplite -- to fight and die, to take the enemy as close to you as possible, to bring him to the unendurable (while enduring it yourself), look at the white in his eyes, at his immediate sweat and heavy breath as you stabbed him again and again. That is what I think your analysis has missed. The internal aspect. That's what the Greeks thought was the most important. The fierceness and the cruelty of the battle. The closeness of the enemy, the importance of bringing him as close as possible, the indomitable discipline to endure, and thus win, or give in to the psychologically horrific experience, and lose. Hoplite fighting was the most unendurable fighting in the ancient world, even more difficult than the psychological demands on the legionary, monumental as they were, and I can say that while being a Roman fanboy. No one had as much grit as the Archaic, true hoplite, and when the reasons for enduring and expressing such grit disappeared, so did the hoplite himself. See Victor Davis Hanson's Western Way of War, which talks at length about this.

    I can address your comments on the Milesian hoplites in an additional post if you would like to raise that point.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; April 24, 2008 at 01:05 AM.


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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    This statement, while entirely true in itself, encapsulates the fundamental mistake of your analysis -- your pervasive focus on the hoplite's armor as his most distinctive characteristic. This was never his distinctive characteristic, and if you clad a rank Persian in heavy armor he would still lose in head-to-head combat against him. The distinctive feature of the hoplite was his war ethic, and that is what the Greeks themselves thought was the most important thing to focus on, and the most crucial part of their way of war. They never focused with such a persistent interest on precise details of the hoplite's armor; there were never Greek poets singing praiseful songs about the tactical length of the hoplite spear, its dimensions down to a decimal point, they never lauded its tactical qualities, or extol people to make spear length even longer and effect the tactical 'advantage' to be even more pronounced. You know this right? I'm sure you know Greek poetry, they couldn't have had all of your external issues further from their mind. Armor hardly played a role in what they considered the most important, and were able to go into battle with just their shield, being otherwise completely naked, and still consider their basic premise as a hoplite fulfilled: and that is the posession of the hoplite ethic, the conscious emphasis on mentally unendurable vicious close combat, something that you apply hardly any attention to at all. That is why the hoplite was superior, and what made him win. Interestingly you did make an observation of the martial ethic, suppose as a matter of scholarly self-respect to observe that you know aspects like that, but commenting in just one stray sentence, and without attaching any further importance to it whatsoever.
    But aren't Celtic and Iberian warriors like that too?
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    Last edited by AqD; September 20, 2011 at 06:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aqd View Post
    But aren't Celtic and Iberian warriors like that too?
    A better counter is to ask why when more greeks fought for Persia than against Persia, did Persia still not prevail.

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post

    In short, as I point out, the hoplite way of war was most crucially psychological and martial, rather than external and deterministic, which I felt to be the crucial oversight of the OP, both in the normative observations it makes, and therefore in the conclusions that it results in. If we grant that the hoplite ethic was the central distinguishing characteristic, then it's easy to see why Persians would lose (with all other things being equal); they didn't have the ethic.
    Warfare is always a refelection on the society, hence the elite greeks sought out a flat area to contest hoplites in an endurance of heavily armoured phalanx`s to decide any dispute, while Persia had gone in the more mobile mounted missile direction but had fused into a more combined arms before the greeks had done so, and had masterd logistics earlier than the greeks. Greek society and Persian society both had an ethic of warfighting and its the persian model that dominted warfare in the long run, differing in technoology only, but its the Persian model that all wars are fought under, and won under, not close combat greek models, but long range.

    The *ethic* of winning existed in persia, or rather the battle winning element of the persian military, no differently, but was implemted differently, and was certainly more mature or advanced in form and function and scale of operation, ergo your following Hanson, who as is clear to all, an arse of the highest order.
    Last edited by Dromikaites; April 26, 2008 at 06:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Fantastic work Rez (+1 ), I presume this is your dissertation?

    The evaluation of the Persian forces is first rate I have to say; if your lecturers are anything like mine, I'm sure they'll find that particular component of the work highly enlightening; the study of the Persian side apparently taking the undeserved backseat in my experience!

    SigniferOne raises some interesting points actually yes; the Hoplite war ethic certainly plays a role too; though I would hasten to augment the idea by saying the reason technical details are omitted in literature (e.g. poetry such as that of Tyrtaeus) would be mostly down to their lack of literal merit ("and lo! Agothocles pieced his foe for his spear was 2 cubits longer!" - sounds not only a little homo erotic, but somewhat awkward from a literary point of view.) Off hand though, I suppose we have examples of sayings such as "Come back on this shield or upon it[/i] exemplifying the importance of the shield to the Hoplite ethic. I would actually say that the shield and to a lesser extent the rest of the Hoplite panopoly was as important as the emphasis on discipline in the phalanx; since they are basically one and the same. If one takes the arguement that the rise of the Hoplite class was instrumental in the political developments in the 6th and 7th centuries, then I think it's safe to assume that Hoplites viewed everything, from their armour, arms, shield to the dicipline in the phalanx was a vital part of their internal drive to maintain their society in the harshness of Hoplite warfare.

    To sum up, if that seems a little disjointed; yes the Hoplite war ethic was important as SigniferOne points out, but to evolve on the idea, it's important to note that the arms and armour were a vital aspect of this ethic.

    Edit: Excellent, I've managed to dig up some Tytaeus and Archilochus (both 7th century, when the Hoplite class was evolving into that which is familiar to the Persian wars effectively) that actually does incorporate technical and physical/metal aspects of warfare:

    Let each man hold, standing firm, both feet planted on the ground,
    biting his lip with his teeth, covering with the belly of his broad
    shield his thighs and legs, his breast and shoulders... let each man,
    closing with the enemy, fighting hand-to-hand with long spear or
    sword, wound and take him; and setting foot against foot, and resting
    shield against shield, crest against crest, helmet against helmet
    let him fight his man breast to breast, grasping the hilt of his sword
    or of his long spear.

    For the man is not agathos (brave) in war, unless he endure seeing the bloody
    slaughter, and standing close reach out for the foe. This is arete, this is the
    best and loveliest prize for the young man to win. A common good this,
    for the whole polis and all the demos, when a man holds, firm-set among the
    fighters, unflinchingly.....
    For it is a fine thing for an agathos man to die, falling among the front-fighters,
    fighting for his fatherland...

    —Translation by Walter Donlan
    Here is is quite clear that our author sees the equipment being very much part of the Hoplite ethic.

    Conversely, here's an example that not all Greeks were happy about Tytaeus' views on the glory of fighting and dying; nor about the importance of his equipment.

    I am a squire of the lord of war, Enyalius, and I understand the lovely gift of the Muses.
    Some barbarian is waving my shield, since I was obliged to
    leave that perfectly good piece of equipment behind
    under a bush. But I got away, so what does it matter?
    Let the shield go; I can buy another one equally good.
    A mercenary, Glaukos, is a friend—so long as he’s fighting.

    There’s no respect or fame from townsmen when you’re dead. It’s the praise of the living we want—while we’re alive. A dead man gets the worst of it, every time.
    I don’t like a general who is big or who walks with a swagger, or who
    glories in his curly hair, cut-off moustache. Give me a man who’s little,
    bandy-legged, feet firm on the ground, and full of heart.

    —Translation by Walter Donlan
    In a way, I can't help but feel that Archilochus here may well be equally reflective of Greek's views to war; Hoplites were generally middle class; wealthy enough for equipment to be procured with relative ease and having not gone through the indocrination of the Spartan agoge, was probably not quite so prone to the extreme patriotism exemplified by the Spartan ideal.

    Just as well I've dedicated today to my Greek History revision, I don't feel quite so bad for spending time reading forum posts and trying to respond to them
    Last edited by Stalins Ghost; April 24, 2008 at 08:09 AM.
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stalins Ghost View Post
    it's important to note that the arms and armour were a vital aspect of this ethic.
    You've raised, perhaps inadvertedly, exactly my point, that the arms and armor were part of the ethic. In other words the ethic was the central point of the hoplite, and various things like his armor, his civic virtue, all fed into it. If discipline and psychologically unendurable closeness to the enemy were important, why did Tyrtaeus make some emphasis on armor, as you point out? Because the armor allowed that hoplite to exercise his ethic even more. To stay longer on the front line; to bring the enemy closer than he even was before.

    The only irreplaceable part of the panoply, as you point out, was the shield, but not because it was 'heavy armor', but because it was a metaphor for the hoplite ethic as such. Imagine pieces of a jig-saw puzzle, which are semi-meaningful by themselves, but make a holistic picture when you put them all together. That's the context in which the hoplite shield was glorified -- as being part of and significant of the hoplite discipline (by inflicting terrible damage if all of the men stayed their part, but nigh meaningless otherwise).

    In short, as I point out, the hoplite way of war was most crucially psychological and martial, rather than external and deterministic, which I felt to be the crucial oversight of the OP, both in the normative observations it makes, and therefore in the conclusions that it results in. If we grant that the hoplite ethic was the central distinguishing characteristic, then it's easy to see why Persians would lose (with all other things being equal); they didn't have the ethic.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; April 24, 2008 at 12:47 PM.


    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude greater than
    the animating contest for freedom, go
    home from us in peace. We seek not
    your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch
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    and may posterity forget that ye were
    our countrymen."
    -Samuel Adams

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    In technical matters a very good article Rez, very well researched, detailed, and in most cases balanced and fair to both sides.
    I'm very happy you decided to read and comment on my work. I'm even happier that you think I was mostly balanced. I was worried that i might come off as to polemic.

    It's when you make a dismissal like this, in two sentences and in a quick breath at the end of a nondescript paragraph, that a big warning sign jumps up in the air.
    What you call a "non-descript" paragraph was actually a paragraph which explained the many victories of the Persian army over forces of hoplites. The battle at Malene being the explicit and crucial one.

    This statement, while entirely true in itself, encapsulates the fundamental mistake of your analysis -- your pervasive focus on the hoplite's armor as his most distinctive characteristic. This was never his distinctive characteristic, and if you clad a rank Persian in heavy armor he would still lose in head-to-head combat against him.
    Whilst I agree that the Persian would lose if they were equipped equally i would have to interject that the war ethic as you call it would only be of minor consideration. As I said in the article the hoplite's advantage in close combat was that he was specifically trained and armed for this type of warfare. The training and ethic being somewhat intertwined but I believe it was the fact that hoplites were close combat specialists rather than all round soldiers that gave them the edge. Obviously this was a point which I needed to highlight more. More on this below, i don't entirely disagree with you but i will explain myself.

    They never focused with such a persistent interest on precise details of the hoplite's armor; there were never Greek poets singing praiseful songs about the tactical length of the hoplite spear, its dimensions down to a decimal point, they never lauded its tactical qualities, or extol people to make spear length even longer and effect the tactical 'advantage' to be even more pronounced.
    Poets might not have sung praises about the tactical dispositions of Greek arms but Herodotus specifically cites the length of the hoplite's spear and the armour he wore as THE reasons for their victory at Platea and their success at Thermopylae.

    Armor hardly played a role in what they considered the most important, and were able to go into battle with just their shield, being otherwise completely naked, and still consider their basic premise as a hoplite fulfilled: and that is the posession of the hoplite ethic, the conscious emphasis on mentally unendurable vicious close combat, something that you apply hardly any attention to at all.
    Armor might not have been what they considered most important in poetry but without it the Greek line would have crumbled under the weight of the continual barrages of missile cavalry. I'm trying to investigate cold hard causes for Greek victory and heavy armour was clearly one of them.

    That is why the hoplite was superior, and what made him win. Interestingly you did make an observation of the martial ethic, suppose as a matter of scholarly self-respect to observe that you know aspects like that, but commenting in just one stray sentence, and without attaching any further importance to it whatsoever
    The problem with this is that if the hoplite was inherently superior due to his ethic then there wouldn't have been the string of defeats to Persian armies which I listed. As to commenting on the martial ethic i did originally have a larger paragraph on the specific style of close combat which the Greeks were devoted to. However the essay as it stands now is 800 words over the limit and I sorely needed to cut it down. I felt cutting out the more romantic ideals was a lot better than losing the tactical dispositions which I said I would focus on.

    That is why you miss, I think, the central lesson of why the Greeks won, and why yes, the hoplite way of war was the better one of the two. You make far too emphasis on the external attributes: the heavy armor, the middle class, all valid points in themselves. What you miss is the central desire, goal of every successful hoplite -- to fight and die, to take the enemy as close to you as possible, to bring him to the unendurable (while enduring it yourself), look at the white in his eyes, at his immediate sweat and heavy breath as you stabbed him again and again. That is what I think your analysis has missed. The internal aspect. That's what the Greeks thought was the most important. The fierceness and the cruelty of the battle. The closeness of the enemy, the importance of bringing him as close as possible, the indomitable discipline to endure, and thus win, or give in to the psychologically horrific experience, and lose. Hoplite fighting was the most unendurable fighting in the ancient world, even more difficult than the psychological demands on the legionary, monumental as they were, and I can say that while being a Roman fanboy. No one had as much grit as the Archaic, true hoplite, and when the reasons for enduring and expressing such grit disappeared, so did the hoplite himself. See Victor Davis Hanson's Western Way of War, which talks at length about this.
    I think this interpretation relies on the idea that the Persian method of fighting was solely reliant on missile weapons and terrified of coming to close quarters. As I outlined the persian strategy was an initial barrage followed by close combat. The melee stage of persian warfare was very important to the success of the army. this is why the front line sparabara and the Anusyia were so well armoured. This is essentially my point of contention with your idea.

    Whilst i agree that I should have emphasized the hoplite's psychological edge over the Persians due to his unbending adherence to the discipline of close combat, I disagree that the Persian ideal was opposed to melee fighting. I'm not trying to say that the Persians had the same ethic of war as the Greeks. Clearly they didn't. What I am pointing out is that the Greek ethic of utter close combat was inevitably stronger than the persian war ethic which conversely was directed at multiple avenues of battle.

    In summation, the Persians were trained for multiple types of combat whereas the hoplite was a close combat specialist. In the end, as long as close combat was the only avenue of attack, the hoplite was always superior. Not because the phalanx was just a better formation, but because it was a better formation for close combat fighting.

    I can address your comments on the Milesian hoplites in an additional post if you would like to raise that point.
    Sure thing. I'd be happy to hear it.

    Fantastic work Rez (+1 ), I presume this is your dissertation?
    Thanks, its the last phase of my portfolio so its kind of like half a dissertation.

    The evaluation of the Persian forces is first rate I have to say; if your lecturers are anything like mine, I'm sure they'll find that particular component of the work highly enlightening; the study of the Persian side apparently taking the undeserved backseat in my experience!
    Unfortunately my lectures actually gloss over all the battles fought with quick two sentence descriptions.

    Just as well I've dedicated today to my Greek History revision, I don't feel quite so bad for spending time reading forum posts and trying to respond to them
    When I was writing this i tried to stay away from the VV but it turned out to be quite helpful!

    becouse the army expert of immortalls was a aemy of slaves peasants but greeks were fightning for freedom
    Thanks for playing.

    Great post! +reputation.
    Thanks!

    +Rep! The article is done by you?
    indeed it is!

    why did Tyrtaeus make some emphasis on armor, as you point out? Because the armor allowed that hoplite to exercise his ethic even more. To stay longer on the front line; to bring the enemy closer than he even was before.
    This is a point which i quite enjoy. The Persian spearmen and Anusyia were equipped with armour in order to engage the enemy head on. however they were in fact using a shorter spear than the Greeks. Hence they were eager to get even closer than the Greeks were!

    If we grant that the hoplite ethic was the central distinguishing characteristic, then it's easy to see why Persians would lose (with all other things being equal); they didn't have the ethic.
    The point is however that all other things weren't equal. The Persians had superiority in Cavalry, missile troops, communications, professionalism (spartans aside) and combined arms maneuvers. Most importantly their generals actually had experience of total warfare.

    Thats why it clearly wasn't easy to see why the persians lost. thats why the Greek victory is so magnificent. If the Greek army was as superior as you say then the persian wars would lose their spectacular nature.

    Edit: Thanks for the rep Conon, that means a lot from you!
    Last edited by rez; April 24, 2008 at 02:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Stalins Ghost's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    You've raised, perhaps inadvertedly, exactly my point, that the arms and armor were part of the ethic. In other words the ethic was the central point of the hoplite, and various things like his armor, his civic virtue, all fed into it. If discipline and psychologically unendurable closeness to the enemy were important, why did Tyrtaeus make some emphasis on armor, as you point out? Because the armor allowed that hoplite to exercise his ethic even more. To stay longer on the front line; to bring the enemy closer than he even was before.

    The only irreplaceable part of the panoply, as you point out, was the shield, but not because it was 'heavy armor', but because it was a metaphor for the hoplite ethic as such. Imagine pieces of a jig-saw puzzle, which are semi-meaningful by themselves, but make a holistic picture when you put them all together. That's the context in which the hoplite shield was glorified -- as being part of and significant of the hoplite discipline (by inflicting terrible damage if all of the men stayed their part, but nigh meaningless otherwise).

    In short, as I point out, the hoplite way of war was most crucially psychological and martial, rather than external and deterministic, which I felt to be the crucial oversight of the OP, both in the normative observations it makes, and therefore in the conclusions that it results in. If we grant that the hoplite ethic was the central distinguishing characteristic, then it's easy to see why Persians would lose (with all other things being equal); they didn't have the ethic.
    Indeed, to be honest by the end of the post I was more trying to augment your point than contending it
    Last edited by Stalins Ghost; April 24, 2008 at 02:36 PM.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    becouse the army expert of immortalls was a aemy of slaves peasants but greeks were fightning for freedom







  10. #10

    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim the great View Post
    becouse the army expert of immortalls was a aemy of slaves peasants but greeks were fightning for freedom
    I Totally Agree

  11. #11
    Stalins Ghost's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Aaaaand the over zealous generalisating stereotype award goes to....

    Jiiiim the greeeaaat!

    Seriously. Think before you respond to detailed historical analysis with such simple statements.
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Great post! +reputation.

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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Great thread and interesting posts
    Well structured and thorough arguments Rez,Stalins Ghost and SigniferOne.

    As far i ve read i believe Stalin gave us a "neutral" point of view.(concerning the fight spirit/equipment of the Hoplites)

    But i must agree that the Hoplite ethos and dedication to a honourable and civilized warfare was indeed a powerful addition to greek army.(At least at tht period of time before the Peloponesian war had changed things in greek warfare.......)


    Keep up posting guys.I will post a more detailed post(full of arguements,thoughts,ideas and conlusions) as soon i will be able to!!!
    Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
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    crazyorc's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    +Rep! The article is done by you?

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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    TL;DR

    Just kidding, that was a great post! +rep The Persian military machine was definately underrated, and used in the wrong conditions. I don't necessarily agree with your ethics point though...
    Last edited by Aetius; April 26, 2008 at 01:44 AM.
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    different_13's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Very interesting. I read only the opening and Persian sections in detail, but I will probably return to this this evening for a more indepth readthrough.
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    Icon14 Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Awesome mate
    I'm thinking of translating this article The only obstacle is my laziness

    Waiting for more great essays from you rez




  18. #18

    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    So... basically the fathers of our notions of democracy were saved by chance and fortune?

    Sounds about right.
    But mark me well; Religion is my name;
    An angel once: but now a fury grown,
    Too often talked of, but too little known.

    -Jonathan Swift

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  19. #19

    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    I believe the main reason why the Persians lost at Platea was the series of wrong decisions made by Mardonius both at strategic level (the way he led the whole campaign) and at tactical level. I will elaborate more later but as rez explained, the Persian army was organized for flexible maneuvering and cooperation between infantry and cavalry and Mardonius failed to take advantage of the power of the combined arms.

    After returning from India Alexander the Great who otherwise had decisively defeated the Persians reorganized his infantry as a combination of phalanx and archers in the same unit, sort of copying the Persian model described by rez. To me this indicates that Alexander considered such organization better than the traditional phalanx. But Alexander was a commander who knew how to use the combined arms, unlike Mardonius or Darius III.

    EDIT: Given that today is holiday in Romania (the second day of the Orthodox Easter) I have the time to elaborate on Mardonius' mistakes.

    The Persian army was designed as a flexible fighting force capable of meeting any type of enemy on any type of terrain including in the mountains. Large areas of mountainous terrain like for instance the modern day Afghanistan had been conquered before the attempted invasion of Greece. The Persians weren't shy of fighting in the mountains in Greece either: at Thermopyle as soon as they found out that there is a path through the mountains they did assault the Phocian-held position even though, as Herodotus tells us, they first believe the Phocians to be Spartans.

    However fighting in the mountains was hard and time-consuming. Even Alexander who was arguably a better general than Mardonius spent 4 years conquering the mountainous eastern part of the Persian empire (330 - 326 BC). Mardonius didn't have that time. His army's supply and reinforcements lines were threatened by the Athenian and Spartan fleets. Without a rather quick victory the burden of supporting his forces would become too much for his Greek allies. This context was pretty much forcing him to attempt to defeat the Greek coalition in a quick campaign. A quick decision would require the battles to take place on a terrain suitable for using the Persian cavalry. This requirement confined Mardonius' operations to only a few parts of Greece. It's time to look at the maps:



    We can see that Attica, the region where Athens is, offered only a few options. According to Herodotus, the Athenians expected the Persians to choose the plain of Thria and that is where the Athenian envoys were urging the Spartans to send their troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herodotus's "Histories" Book IX
    When the envoys of the Athenians, accompanied by ambassadors from Megara and Plataea, reached Lacedaemon, they came before the Ephors, and spoke as follows:-

    "The Athenians have sent us to you to say,- the king of the Medes offers to give us back our country, and wishes to conclude an alliance with us on fair and equal terms, without fraud or deceit. He is willing likewise to bestow on us another country besides our own, and bids us choose any land that we like. But we, because we reverenced Hellenic Jupiter, and thought it a shameful act to betray Greece, instead of consenting to these terms, refused them; notwithstanding that we have been wronged and deserted by the other Greeks, and are fully aware that it is far more for our advantage to make peace with the Persian than to prolong the war with him. Still we shall not, of our own free will, consent to any terms of peace. Thus do we, in all our dealings with the Greeks, avoid what is base and counterfeit: while contrariwise, ye, who were but now so full of fear least we should make terms with the enemy, having learnt of what temper we are, and assured yourselves that we shall not prove traitors to our country- having brought moreover your wall across the Isthmus to an advanced state- cease altogether to have any care for us. Ye covenanted with us to go out and meet the Persian in Boeotia; but when the time came, ye were false to your word, and looked on while the barbarian host advanced into Attica. At this time, therefore, the Athenians are angered with you; and justly,- for ye have not done what was right. They bid you, however, make haste to send forth your army, that we may even yet meet Mardonius in Attica. Now that Boeotia is lost to us, the best place for the fight within our country, will be the plain of Thria."
    Where the Athenians stupid to suggest a terrain which would offer the Persians the advantage? Not really: if the Persian army would move into the plain of Thria to meet them, the Greeks would have their backs covered by Mt. Gerata and the fortified city of Eleusis and a safe route for withdrawal along the coast in case the things turn ugly. The Greeks would remain in the rough terrain near the mountains, relatively safe from the cavalry attacks and since they were the masters of the sea they would have been able to send strong detachments to block the passes behind the Persian army, trapping them in an area already depleted of resources during the Athenian withdrawal on the island of Salamis.

    Mardonius thought the same so when he found out the Spartans were marching to meet him he withdrew to Boetia precisely to avoid being trapped in Attica:

    Quote Originally Posted by Herodotus's "Histories" Book IX
    When Mardonius learnt that the Spartans were on their march, he no longer cared to remain in Attica. Hitherto he had kept quiet, wishing to see what the Athenians would do, and had neither ravaged their territory, nor done it any the least harm; for till now he had cherished the hope that the Athenians would come to terms with him. As, however, he found that his persuasions were of no avail, and as their whole policy was now clear to him, he determined to withdraw from Attica before Pausanias with his army reached the Isthmus; first, however, he resolved to burn Athens, and to cast down and level with the ground whatever remained standing of the walls, temples, and other buildings. His reason for retreating was, that Attica was not a country where horse could act with advantage; and further, that if he suffered defeat in a battle, no way of escape was open to him, except through defiles, where a handful of troops might stop all his army. So he determined to withdraw to Thebes, and give the Greeks battle in the neighbourhood of a friendly city, and on ground well suited for cavalry.

    After he had quitted Attica and was already upon his march, news reached him that a body of a thousand Lacedaemonians, distinct from the army of Pausanias, and sent on in advance, had arrived in the Megarid. When he heard it, wishing, if possible, to destroy this detachment first, Mardonius considered with himself how he might compass their ruin. With a sudden change of march he made for Megara, while the horse, pushing on in advance, entered and ravaged the Megarid. (Here was the furthest point in Europe towards the setting sun to which this Persian army ever penetrated.)

    After this, Mardonius received another message, whereby he learnt that the forces of the Greeks were collected together at the Isthmus; which tidings caused him to draw back, and leave Attica by the way of Deceleia. The Boeotarchs had sent for some of the neighbours of the Asopians; and these persons served as guides to the army, and led them first to Sphendale, and from thence to Tanagra, where Mardonius rested a night; after which, upon the morrow, he bent his course to Scolus, which brought him into the territory of the Thebans. And now, although the Thebans had espoused the cause of the Medes, yet Mardonius cut down all the trees in these parts; not however from any enmity towards the Thebans, but on account of his own urgent needs; for he wanted a rampart to protect his army from attack, and he likewise desired to have a place of refuge, whither his troops might flee, in case the battle should go contrary to his wishes. His army at this time lay on the Asopus, and stretched from Erythrae, along by Hysiae, to the territory of the Plataeans. The wall, however, was not made to extend so far, but formed a square of about ten furlongs each way.

    A map of the area of the battle of Plataea allows us to better understand what happened next (and how Mardonius screwed up big time):



    I've included two maps because each contains relevant details the other doesn't.

    First of all we see that when the Persians withdrew from Attica to Thebes they had to take the route through Decelea/Deceleia and Tanagra while the Greek alliance took the shorter way, from Eleusis or Athens to Eleutherae and then Plataea. Now it's easy to understand the strategic blunder committed by Mardonius: he left for Athens without securing his back. Because he didn't have the time to properly siege Plataea (the city would fall after a 2 years-long siege during the Peloponesian war) he could have at least ordered his Theban allies to surround/invest it (that's exactly what the the Spartans and the Thebans did from 429 to 427 BC) and keep that route to Attica open for his own army.

    After the withdrawal from Attica, having Plateea sieged would have almost guaranteed the Spartans and the Athenians would rush to relieve it or otherwise they would have lost their credibility with the other allies. And it turned out that the area around the exit from the mountains (Dryoscephalae = "Oak Heada" on the first Plataea map) was well suited for cavalry:

    Quote Originally Posted by Herodotus's "Histories" Book IX
    So when the victims [of the sacrifices - note by Dromikaites] did not allow either the Persians or their Greek allies to begin the battle- these Greeks had their own soothsayer in the person of Hippomachus, a Leucadian- and when soldiers continued to pour into the opposite camp and the numbers on the Greek side to increase continually, Timagenidas, the son of Herpys, a Theban, advised Mardonius to keep a watch on the passes of Cithaeron, telling him how supplies of men kept flocking in day after day, and assuring him that he might cut off large numbers.

    It was eight days after the two armies first encamped opposite to one another when this advice was given by Timagenidas. Mardonius, seeing it to be good, as soon as evening came, sent his cavalry to that pass of Mount Cithaeron which opens out upon Plataea, a pass called by the Boeotians the "Three Heads," called the "Oak-Heads" by the Athenians. The horse sent on this errand did not make the movement in vain. They came upon a body of five hundred sumpter-beasts which were just entering the plain, bringing provisions to the Greek camp from the Peloponnese, with a number of men driving them. Seeing this prey in their power, the Persians set upon them and slaughtered them, sparing none, neither man nor beast; till at last, when they had had enough of slaying, they secured such as were left, and bore them off to the camp to Mardonius.
    We see that not only Mardonius neglected to do his "homework" before leaving for Athens. He also kept allowing his enemies to receive supplies and reinforcements.

    To be continued...
    Last edited by Dromikaites; May 09, 2008 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Typos
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  20. #20
    Stalins Ghost's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Why did the Persians Fail to Conquer Greece?

    Indeed, the fact that Alexander; one of the finest military minds in history chose to implement cavalry and archers of the Persian model alongside the Macedonian forces demonstrates the flexibility it afforded and the clear tactical opportunities it provided; another reason to consider that the Persian armies simply were not as poor as ancient historians would like to have us believe.
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