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  1. #1
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    Default US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of the Untied States

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7361446.stm

    I knew Israel had acquired Nukes, but i had no idea that they would betray their greatest ally which has sacrificed a lot for them. But whats more surprising is that after the espionage, the US-Israel relations strengthened ten fold despite Israels betrayal and theft.

    And not just any theft, Nuclear weapons theft. And its not just a consiparcy or theory a man had been caught and arrested for it.


    His alleged handler has been named by justice officials as the former consul for science affairs at the Israeli Consulate General in Manhattan, reportedly the same person who dealt with Jonathan Jay Pollard, who is serving life in prison for spying for Israel.

    Pollard passed thousands of documents to Israeli agents while working at the US defence department. He was convicted in 1987. The Israeli government publicly admitted in 1998 that Pollard had been their agent and awarded him Israeli citizenship.


    Question is, what the US have done and what would the people have thought if it was a Moroccan agent?

  2. #2
    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Also


    An Army veteran of World War II who helped invent a target sensing device while working for the service in the 1970s has been arrested for passing secrets to Israel, including information on the Patriot missile system.

    Ben-Ami Kadish, 84, of Clifton, N.J., has been charged with conspiring to disclose national defense documents to the Israeli government, conspiring to act as an agent of Israel, conspiring to hinder a communication to an FBI agent and conspiring to make false statements to the agent, according to an April 22 Department of Justice announcement.

    According to a Justice Department spokesman, conviction of the first count can carry the death penalty or up to life in prison. Count two carries a maximum of 10 years in jail, count three five years and count four 20 years.

    The government alleges Kadish conspired with an Israeli official assigned to the Israeli consulate in Manhattan. Some reports indicate the Israeli "handler" was the same official who served as the contact for convicted spy Jonathan Pollard, a civilian Navy employee who is serving a life sentence for spying for Tel Aviv.

    According to the Justice Department, Kadish passed information to the Israeli official at various times between 1979 and 1985 while Kadish worked as a mechanical engineer at the Army's Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center in Picatinny Arsenal, N.J.

    The government alleges he brought home documents that he then provided to the Israeli agent, who photographed them. The Israeli handler is not identified in the Justice Department release.

    The department alleges one of the classified documents Kadish provided to Israel contained information concerning nuclear weaponry and was classified as “restricted data” -- a specific designation by the U.S. Department of Energy because the document contained atomic-related information.

    Another document allegedly passed to his Israeli hander was designated "secret" and contained information on the Patriot missile air defense system, the Justice Department claims.

    Kadish was born in born in Connecticut, according to the Justice Department, while a 2006 feature story on him in the New Jersey Jewish News reported that he was raised in Palestine prior to the establishment of the Israeli state. The story also said that he served in both the British and U.S. militaries during World War II.

    He later served in the “Haganah,” the Jewish paramilitary group during the British Mandate of Palestine; the Haganah later formed the core of the Israeli Defense Forces.

    During the 1970s, Kadish worked for the Army and co-developed and patented a target-sensing device that helped zero-in warhead strikes on a target, according to a U.S. patent dated Dec. 20, 1977.

    George Applebaum, a friend of Kadish's in New Jersey and commander of the Jewish War Veterans post they both belonged to, was obviously shocked by the charges made against Kadish.

    "He's not a man of violence, he's not like a right-winger or a really radical left-winger," Applebaum told Military.com in a telephone interview. "He was someplace toward the middle of the road. ... He was strident to a certain point, but you wouldn't expect to see a wild-eyed radical 'whatever.' "

    Applebaum, 84, said he and Kadish worked many events together at the Jewish War Veterans post, including bringing gifts to wounded troops at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington and visiting hospitalized vets in New Jersey.

    "He's very patriotic," Applebaum said. "That's what the shock is -- that somebody is bringing something like [espionage charges] on him. It's shocking and very debilitating."

    Applebaum said he "can't question his patriotism" to the United States, and has let Kadish's family know that if there is anything he can do to support them during this time, he'd be happy to help.
    http://www.military.com/news/article...to-israel.html
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  3. #3

    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    this is kinda strange...I mean doesn't US sell Israel many very very advanced weapons and technology already? why bother steal it if you can buy it (with US military financial aid too)?
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    "this is kinda strange...I mean doesn't US sell Israel many very very advanced weapons and technology already? why bother steal it if you can buy it (with US military financial aid too)?"

    ahh those latest stuff cant be bought yet, and by the time they may sold, it would be maybe a year or two

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    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    The schematics of the Patriot missile system and fighter jets are probably still top secret, either that or it was at the time the man passed the information on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Go on Farnan, go and help those despicable thugs you call our soldiers to kill some of the poorest people on the planet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Don't you realize that it is a good thing that so many British soldiers have already been killed as punishment for the invasion?


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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    its simple.

    israel is a vital bridgehead and a secure forward position in the middle east for us interests. it represents western values and the democratic rule of law(theoretically) amongst a sea of kings, dictators and sheikdoms.. therefore they can get away with what ever they like because the united states needs them to remain a representative of their interests in what is essentially only a vaguely friendly part of the world for them..
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by antea View Post
    its simple.

    it represents western values and the democratic rule of law(theoretically) amongst a sea of kings, dictators and sheikdoms.. therefore they can get away with what ever they like because the united states needs them to remain a representative of their interests in what is essentially only a vaguely friendly part of the world for them..
    to some extent, this is all well and true, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by antea View Post
    israel is a vital bridgehead and a secure forward position in the middle east for us interests.
    Now, don't get me wrong here, I have heard this argument many times before from us politicians, but how the heck does Israel act as a US bridgehead to the ME? The rest of the ME hates Israel, and Israel can in no way represent the US in the ME. That is unless the US (still) wants to be percieved negatively, and then there is the fact that Israel is not involved in much of the internal ME politics, they are left out. the US bridgehead into the ME is probably Saudi-Arabia, until Iraq (maybe) becomes a stable enough state to do so.
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    1. Israel's priority is...Israel. USA is an ally today because there's oil in the Middle East and it's good to have at least one friend in the area. There's no guarantee the USA would remain interested in protecting Israel after the oil is gone. USA was rather slow to support Israel in the beginning precisely because it didn't want to upset the Arabs. Only after some of the Arabs turned to the Soviet Union for help did the USA become a strong supporter of Israel. Therefore the Israeli government has to make sure it gets whatever technology and information required to protect Israel, by whatever means.

    2. The job of any spy is...espionage. The Israelis are doing it and everybody else is doing it as well. Even the EU members are doing it to each other and will keep doing it until there's an unified EU Intelligence Agency and an unified EU Counter-Intelligence Agency.
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by Dromikaites View Post
    2. The job of any spy is...espionage. The Israelis are doing it and everybody else is doing it as well. Even the EU members are doing it to each other and will keep doing it until there's an unified EU Intelligence Agency and an unified EU Counter-Intelligence Agency.
    But who got away with it, i mean Nuclear weapons, come on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Octy View Post
    Don't allies generally spy on each other?
    Not when Nuclear and massive weapons are involved, at least they don;t remanin friendly afterward.

    ---------
    Just a note, i don;t want this to turn into a Israel-palestinian thing, this is more about Espionage and the Isreali-US relations in general.

    Hers another thought, why was it so easy to get eh Nuke stuff, i mean whats stopping some other nation doing the same? Or even whats to stop Israel selling it?

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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Don't allies generally spy on each other?

  11. #11

    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    this is a wink and a nod type thing, and the guy arrested was a sacrifice, this way we could give more nukes to our greatest ally and more nuke tech, so everyone in the ME knows whats up, that we got a buncho crazy jews with lots of bombs right up in the back yard.

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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaigidel View Post
    this is a wink and a nod type thing, and the guy arrested was a sacrifice, this way we could give more nukes to our greatest ally and more nuke tech, so everyone in the ME knows whats up, that we got a buncho crazy jews with lots of bombs right up in the back yard.
    If you think so,
    i believe Ariel Sharon's infamous quote, "Don't worry about them, we control the US Senate"

  13. #13

    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    weapons platform simple.
    airstrips
    ports

    its an obvious beachhead into the ME

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    Hansa's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaigidel View Post
    weapons platform simple.
    airstrips
    ports

    its an obvious beachhead into the ME
    Ahem, If I am not mistaken the US has conducted several military expeditions in the ME in recent times, I can't remember Israeli airstrips or ports being used. Again, Saudi Arabia was used (Gulf War I), Kuwait (GW II) and I believe one of the major strategic reasons for the US having carriers is that it does not need airstrips as it brings its own.
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansa View Post
    Ahem, If I am not mistaken the US has conducted several military expeditions in the ME in recent times, I can't remember Israeli airstrips or ports being used. Again, Saudi Arabia was used (Gulf War I), Kuwait (GW II) and I believe one of the major strategic reasons for the US having carriers is that it does not need airstrips as it brings its own.
    you have answered your own question in part.

    israel will always be open to use as an american military bridgehead. arab states come and go with the politics of the time... (eg wheres your aircraft carriers in an emergency if egypt closes the suez canal? - its happened before and israel was a vital partner in the war that followed.. allbeit for french and british)

    but its not that the united states needs israeli airstrips. its enough that they have a powerful, co-operative ally in the area. israel can press US interests without the US getting itself dirty. ( eg when israel destroyed iraq's budding nuclear industry in the 80's ). israel keeps a lid on plenty of other countries/problems that have been very unfriendly to US interests.. not only this, they give the US deniablity for every action israel does that benefits american interest.

    thats just the military benefits of having a powerful ally in an unfriendly area..
    Last edited by antea; April 23, 2008 at 09:07 PM.
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by antea View Post
    you have answered your own question in part.

    israel will always be open to use as an american military bridgehead. arab states come and go with the politics of the time... (eg wheres your aircraft carriers in an emergency if egypt closes the suez canal? - its happened before and israel was a vital partner in the war that followed.. allbeit for french and british)

    but its not that the united states needs israeli airstrips. its enough that they have a powerful, co-operative ally in the area. israel can press US interests without the US getting itself dirty. ( eg when israel destroyed iraq's budding nuclear industry in the 80's ). israel keeps a lid on plenty of other countries/problems that have been very unfriendly to US interests.. not only this, they give the US deniablity for every action israel does that benefits american interest.

    thats just the military benefits of having a powerful ally in an unfriendly area..
    Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the US make use of mainly Turkish airstrips, not Israeli ones? Wouldn't Turkey continue being a better option than Isreal simply because of its neutrality and safe distance from the war theatre?

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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by whhyy View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the US make use of mainly Turkish airstrips, not Israeli ones? Wouldn't Turkey continue being a better option than Isreal simply because of its neutrality and safe distance from the war theatre?

    @Sylvania

    I hate stereotypes - all people are equally scheming. EDIT: LOL Banned again Yuna.
    of course.. but then turkey, like other countries in the region has also refused the united states access to its airstrips and its airspace in recent years whenever they dont like what the americans are doing. eg the iraq invasion.
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    Quote Originally Posted by antea View Post
    you have answered your own question in part.
    israel will always be open to use as an american military bridgehead. arab states come and go with the politics of the time... (eg wheres your aircraft carriers in an emergency if egypt closes the suez canal? - its happened before and israel was a vital partner in the war that followed.. allbeit for french and british)
    Right and either aircraft carriers can go over land through Israel, or the planes would reach from Israel?

    If the planes can reach from Israel they can reach from the Mediterranean.

  19. #19

    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    our relationship is indisputable, we need Israel and Israel needs us.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: US man 'gave secrets to Israel' - Israeli betrayal of teh Untied States

    How exactly has Israel benefited the US, i never seem to get a credible answer.

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