Far Right party gets first MP

[the Black Prince]

Thats right folks, the right wing party UKIP, already the only far right party to have membership in the House of Lords now has its first member in the commons too after sacked tory MP Bob Spink takes the UKIP whip.

He joins Lord Pearson, Lord Willoughby de Broke as UKIPs Parliamentary representatives.

UKIP aims to:
Leave the EU and focus on the Commonwealth and free market
Freeze Immigration for 5 years and increase deportation
Grammar school in every town
Radical NHS reform including an Insurance Fund but retain free at point of care principle.
Scrap the Human Rights Act
Allow votes on police priorities
Introduce flat rate taxes, scrap inheritance tax and cut corporation tax
No to green taxes. Invest in Nuclear power and clean coal
Increase defence spending and recruit up to 25,000 more troops
Introduce an English Parliament
Make railways customer focused, make foreign lorries pay to use British roads
Restore british fishing and territorial waters


Hard to believe people vote for these guys...

[Spartacus the Irish]

Hard to believe people vote for these guys...

It worked for Hitler.

I agree with the scrapping the "Human Rights Act", however. It gives criminals, slackers and general idiots a shield to hide behind. Or at least lay down certain situations where Human Rights no longer apply - such as if you have committed a criminal act, etc.

[Denny Crane!]

Thats right folks, the right wing party UKIP, already the only far right party to have membership in the House of Lords now has its first member in the commons too after sacked tory MP Bob Spink takes the UKIP whip.

He joins Lord Pearson, Lord Willoughby de Broke as UKIPs Parliamentary representatives.

UKIP aims to:
Leave the EU and focus on the Commonwealth and free market
Freeze Immigration for 5 years and increase deportation
Grammar school in every town
Radical NHS reform including an Insurance Fund but retain free at point of care principle.
Scrap the Human Rights Act
Allow votes on police priorities
Introduce flat rate taxes, scrap inheritance tax and cut corporation tax
No to green taxes. Invest in Nuclear power and clean coal
Increase defence spending and recruit up to 25,000 more troops
Introduce an English Parliament
Make railways customer focused, make foreign lorries pay to use British roads
Restore british fishing and territorial waters


Hard to believe people vote for these guys...

Your post is....flawed. Based on the policies you listed there, there is no reason NOT to vote for them.

Until you find out they are incompetent, oh and its a freeze on immigration beyond what is neccessary for the economy which is entirely sensible.

Welcome back anyway haven't seen you for ages!

[Yorkshireman]

Your post is....flawed. Based on the policies you listed there, there is no reason NOT to vote for them.

Until you find out they are incompetent,

Precisely, or I'd vote for them everytime. It's a pity because we need a respectable party on the right (imo) seeing as the Tories seem to have decided if you can't beat 'em join em.

[bigfootedfred]

that actaully makes me consider voting for ukip...thanks for the info.

[Каие]

Your post is....flawed. Based on the policies you listed there, there is no reason NOT to vote for them.
Until you find out they are incompetent, oh and its a freeze on immigration beyond what is neccessary for the economy which is entirely sensible.
Welcome back anyway haven't seen you for ages!

Erm...
Scrap the Human Rights Act

Precisely, or I'd vote for them everytime. It's a pity because we need a respectable party on the right (imo) seeing as the Tories seem to have decided if you can't beat 'em join em.

Scrap the Human Rights Act

I'd vote for them if I was British.

You would wouldn;t you.

-----------------------------

Sure it sounds good, but err...how exactly are they going to do what they said? Thats just a list of points, not a plan on how to do it. Besides their plan is bullcrap.

God if people consider voting for parties like this, this country is going to be a mess in 30 years time.

Oh yeah traitors suck!"!

[Denny Crane!]

Erm...
Scrap the Human Rights Act



Scrap the Human Rights Act

So? Will they all of a sudden turn into murdering maniacs? Of course not and the humans rights act hasn't actually stopped our country infringing consistently on civil liberties and the humans rights act has been ruthlessly exploited by self serving people. The real work towards equality and rule of law was done long before the human rights act so what exactly is your point?

-----------------------------

Sure it sounds good, but err...how exactly are they going to do what they said? Thats just a list of points, not a plan on how to do it. Besides their plan is bullcrap.

God if people consider voting for parties like this, this country is going to be a mess in 30 years time.

Oh yeah traitors suck!"!

How exactly does any party do anything it sets out to do? You haven't so far listed any real objections in this point beyond your own dystopian visions.

[Каие]

So? Will they all of a sudden turn into murdering maniacs? Of course not and the humans rights act hasn't actually stopped our country infringing consistently on civil liberties and the humans rights act has been ruthlessly exploited by self serving people. The real work towards equality and rule of law was done long before the human rights act so what exactly is your point?

So what exactly is achieved by scrapping the Human rights act?

How exactly does any party do anything it sets out to do? You haven't so far listed any real objections in this point beyond your own dystopian visions.

I recently got a local leaflet from UKIP, this is what they pledged to do in my area. They said they could reduce council tax by 40% if they spent 25% less in their budget....at the same time they pledged to build us a new hospital and a new prison. Increase the amount of transport and improve the rails and buses. With less money.

So where is this extra money going to come from?
and since when did i want a ing Prison in my backyard?

Secondly they seemed to think they had power over immigration and foreign policy in a local election and a local council as in to freeze immigration and introducing border control, either the manifesto was drafted by a moron, or they really don't know this is a local election. They also plan on dismantling regional government (in a local election) and give all the power to the local councils.

Whereas their national policy is to cut Green tax, they plan on increasing green and renewable energy.
The party seems to think it can give everyone tax cuts and ten times more improved services and new facilities and buildings, while at the same time making themselves powerful and cutting spending.

I think its the European Human Rights Act that they're opposed to, not human rights in general. The European human right laws and cases are decided in a foreign country and operated by an institution that can override sovereign British courts and laws. The European Human Rights Act erodes British sovereignty.
That is what UKIP (and any right minded person) is opposed to.

Thats a new one, call anyone who is for the EU a wrong minded person.

[Denny Crane!]

So what exactly is achieved by scrapping the Human rights act?

It stops the people who exploit it and could be replaced by much better legislation.

I recently got a local leaflet from UKIP, this is what they pledged to do in my area. They said they could reduce council tax by 40% if they spent 25% less in their budget....at the same time they pledged to build us a new hospital and a new prison. Increase the amount of transport and improve the rails and buses. With less money.

So?

So where is this extra money going to come from?
and since when did i want a ing Prison in my backyard?

So your a NIMBY? Sorry bub but prisons have to go somewhere.

As for the extra money quite a lot can be done by cutting down public services that are bloated, all the extra taxes that Labour have raised through the hundred or more increases during their time in power has allowed for modest improvement in some places like the NHS but also wasted tens of billions every year.

So yeah it wouldn't be easy but it is possible and I'd much rather a government failed by collecting 25% less tax than 25% more tax. I could afford private medical insurance if I was being taxed less and I'd get a damn sight better treatment than on the NHS.

Secondly they seemed to think they had power over immigration and foreign policy in a local election and a local council as in to freeze immigration and introducing border control, either the manifesto was drafted by a moron, or they really don't know this is a local election. They also plan on dismantling regional government (in a local election) and give all the power to the local councils.

Perhaps the local policy consultant is a moron, it happens or perhaps they are extrapolating on a broader theme of what UKIP stands for.

Whereas their national policy is to cut Green tax, they plan on increasing green and renewable energy.
The party seems to think it can give everyone tax cuts and ten times more improved services and new facilities and buildings, while at the same time making themselves powerful and cutting spending.

Yes it is wonderful isn't it. Unlike Labour who take a whole lot of tax and spend a huge chunk on regulation and beauracracy.

[the Black Prince]

Whats bad about UKIP?

Well, my comments were taken from their website, so certainly has a positive spin on it but here we go...

Leave the EU and focus on the Commonwealth and free market
tbh, I can take or leave this. I'm not eurosceptic, i'm eurobored. I've heard the arguments back and forward and there's pros and cons to both sides.

Freeze Immigration for 5 years and increase deportation
Fine, but Seneca, this is all immigration. No loopholes for the economic migrants, the skilled people we actually need without whom the NHS (to name but one area) would collapse.

Grammar school in every town
Supply and demand. I don't think there's the demand for it...

Radical NHS reform including an Insurance Fund but retain free at point of care principle.
Think about it... Insurance Fund... You'd get free treatment... then a bill would land on your door step... basically this is a policy to get rid of free health care (such as it is). I think.

Scrap the Human Rights Act
What do people have against this Act? Really? Name for me please the articles in the European Convention on Human Rights that you think are bad and why they shouldn't apply here. Not to mention that even if we didn't have this act, people could always go to the human rights court in strasbourg and get the issue solved, resulting in massive fines against the UK, paid for by Mr A Taxpayer.

Allow votes on police priorities
Because yes, we SOOO want policing to be controlled even more by the media than it already is. The best people to set policing policy is the police. no one else. No political agendas, no moral crusades. We have enough idiot knee jerk public opinion reaction criminal justice legislation around without this insanity.

Introduce flat rate taxes, scrap inheritance tax and cut corporation tax
Fine, brilliant. Every conservative loves tax cuts. Now balance the budget if you would, please.

No to green taxes. Invest in Nuclear power and clean coal
well, yup, i'm all for scrapping green taxes. Thats a ridiculous way to protect the environment. This is the highlight of the parties laughable green policy (a party that has publicly claimed global warming isn't happening). Clean coal... ha ha.. clean coal maybe better than normal coal, slightly, but i'd rather invest in renewable energy in an attempt to make it cost effective.

Increase defence spending and recruit up to 25,000 more troops
more defence spending, on less taxes. I cannot complain about this, I really can't but where is the money coming from?

Introduce an English Parliament
Another level of bureaucracy for England. And i thought the right stood for less bureaucracy not more. So many people in England don't even want this. Its quite simple, English only issues voted on by English only MPs. Or an English Grand Committee like we used to have for Scotland.

Make railways customer focused, make foreign lorries pay to use British roads
well, the former, yes please. As for the 2nd, yes, lets destroy whats left of our economy. Make foreign drivers pay to use our roads?

Restore british fishing and territorial waters
Yes, lets get the votes of all the aggrieved fisherman. The quota system maybe unfair, but it is needed. Depleted fish stocks can breed and restore. No fish stocks at all will soon spell the end of British fishing.

Incidentally, i'm not on the loony left, i'm centre right.

How exactly does any party do anything it sets out to do?

When exactly is a better question. There's a number of points from the 2005 Labour manifesto I still haven't ticked off yet. A certain referendum tops the list.

Precisely, or I'd vote for them everytime. It's a pity because we need a respectable party on the right (imo) seeing as the Tories seem to have decided if you can't beat 'em join em.

Join 'em? I don't see Conservative tax policies penalising the lowest paid and poorest. On a social agenda, you may not see much difference between the conservatives and labour, but thats because socially, both parties currently occupy a centre ground. On other issues, many other issues, the parties are waaay apart.

I wonder why must the parties who opposes immigration and are patriotic about their country be racists?

Its easier to dismiss than to debate, and lets be honest, Harriet Harman dismisses a lot.

Its also because the debate field has been tainted by those who come to debate these issues quite vocally with a definite racist agenda. UKIP I do not accuse of this, though rumours persist. When you share an aspect of the political spectrum with the BNP however, some mud sticks.

From an American perspective, the UKIP doesn't seem that far right.

Yeah but from an American perspective, the British Conservative Party is decidedly "Liberal". And by Liberal I mean that nasty word that Republicans use to attack democrats rather than its true meaning.

[Denny Crane!]

Whats bad about UKIP?

Well, my comments were taken from their website, so certainly has a positive spin on it but here we go...

Leave the EU and focus on the Commonwealth and free market
tbh, I can take or leave this. I'm not eurosceptic, i'm eurobored. I've heard the arguments back and forward and there's pros and cons to both sides.

Agreed their are benefits and vice versa.

Freeze Immigration for 5 years and increase deportation
Fine, but Seneca, this is all immigration. No loopholes for the economic migrants, the skilled people we actually need without whom the NHS (to name but one area) would collapse.

The party says work permits should continue to be issued to companies requiring employees to work in the UK throughout this moratorium period.

After the moratorium, the policy paper says, future immigration would then be on a strictly controlled basis using a points system.

So they aren't letting people have citizenship, I nearly went to New Zealand on a similar deal and it didn't put me off. Furthermore there are many countries that allow people to work there but do not give citizenship.

Grammar school in every town
Supply and demand. I don't think there's the demand for it...

Probably some thing that scores well in the polls. Not something that would put me off the party.

Radical NHS reform including an Insurance Fund but retain free at point of care principle.
Think about it... Insurance Fund... You'd get free treatment... then a bill would land on your door step... basically this is a policy to get rid of free health care (such as it is). I think.

OK and I don't actually have a problem with that, which is something we can go further into if you raise it as a major point of contention.

Scrap the Human Rights Act
What do people have against this Act? Really? Name for me please the articles in the European Convention on Human Rights that you think are bad and why they shouldn't apply here. Not to mention that even if we didn't have this act, people could always go to the human rights court in strasbourg and get the issue solved, resulting in massive fines against the UK, paid for by Mr A Taxpayer.

Not if we weren't part of the EU, rather than ask whats wrong with it, tell me what is right with it. We were already reforming ourselves long before this came along instituting equality laws and sexism laws.

Allow votes on police priorities
Because yes, we SOOO want policing to be controlled even more by the media than it already is. The best people to set policing policy is the police. no one else. No political agendas, no moral crusades. We have enough idiot knee jerk public opinion reaction criminal justice legislation around without this insanity.

Instead we have knee jerk political reactions like for instance focusing on cannabis. I'm honestly not sure which is worse.

Introduce flat rate taxes, scrap inheritance tax and cut corporation tax
Fine, brilliant. Every conservative loves tax cuts. Now balance the budget if you would, please.

Flat taxes or fair taxes are proven to work, leading economists support them the only thing that stops it is bloated government, public institutions and bloated socialistic agendas.

The economic results of the flat tax in Estonia were stunning as the tiny Baltic state emerged from 50 years of Soviet oppression and a Bolshevik-style planned economy to become a modern, prosperous country.

Inflation dropped from more than 1,000 per cent to just 2.5 per cent, in line with western Europe. Unemployment fell from 30 per cent to six per cent and growth has soared to six per cent, a rate that Gordon Brown would envy. Investment poured in and the initial 26 per cent tax rate has been cut to 23 per cent. Next year, it will be cut again to 20 per cent.

Tell me again you can't cut taxes?

No to green taxes. Invest in Nuclear power and clean coal
well, yup, i'm all for scrapping green taxes. Thats a ridiculous way to protect the environment. This is the highlight of the parties laughable green policy (a party that has publicly claimed global warming isn't happening). Clean coal... ha ha.. clean coal maybe better than normal coal, slightly, but i'd rather invest in renewable energy in an attempt to make it cost effective.

I'm against government stepping in on this one, what they need to do is step back from subsidising the power industries and let the most economical win through.

I don't know anyone qualified to say what is going to be the next betamax, will it be the electric or the hydrogen car, will nano solar work as well as hyped or will fusion be developed workably next year.

Don't tell me private industry won't come up with a solution tell Shai Agassi.

Increase defence spending and recruit up to 25,000 more troops
more defence spending, on less taxes. I cannot complain about this, I really can't but where is the money coming from?

Dealt with this one in the above post.

Introduce an English Parliament
Another level of bureaucracy for England. And i thought the right stood for less bureaucracy not more. So many people in England don't even want this. Its quite simple, English only issues voted on by English only MPs. Or an English Grand Committee like we used to have for Scotland.

Well I agree here but then I support scottish parliment gaining full power and sovereignty.

Make railways customer focused, make foreign lorries pay to use British roads
well, the former, yes please. As for the 2nd, yes, lets destroy whats left of our economy. Make foreign drivers pay to use our roads?

It is probably a neccessary step. Especially since half of them aren't roadworthy not to mention the fact that there is almost a culture of slave labour amongst this particular labour market, unfair working conditions, illegal workers and bad working practice.

Though I'm generally against protectionism.

Restore british fishing and territorial waters
Yes, lets get the votes of all the aggrieved fisherman. The quota system maybe unfair, but it is needed. Depleted fish stocks can breed and restore. No fish stocks at all will soon spell the end of British fishing.

So lets restore fish stocks and stop spanish super trawlers dredging them dry

From an old arguement with Mad Guitar Murphey posted by myself:

Hey I'm not a total burk I realise the north sea is totally overfished and the fact is some jobs had to be sacrificed. Most coast lines are overfished these days, the global cod population is decreasing as well as various other schools of fish indiginous to the EU's coasts.

But do you really think that TAC's actually help though In order to avoid breaking the quota, fishermen often
throw back the extra fish, which usually die. A 1990 Dutch study on Fisheries concluded that "for every ton of fish for consumption, two to four tons of dead fish were tipped overboard." In addition, the report says hat "of the 103 TACs set by the Commission for 1991, only 39 were calculated scientifically, based on fish populations and ages. The rest were based on guesses or past fishing practice."

The issue that is at stake though, that really concerns people is not the CFP's TAC it all dates back to when the international community decided to expand their EEZ's from 12-200 miles of their coast and the spanish with the sixth largest fishing fleet in the world started encroaching on french and english waters. We enabled an act (name escapes me something to do with merchant naval act 1975) that said 75% of boats in Britains EEZ had to be british, the spanish simply registered under the uk flag and now trawl our waters with impunity.

Its a very wide issue worthy of a thread on its own I am only brushing the surface of. Needless to say it is not as simple as you or others make out, neither are the solutions.

Incidentally, i'm not on the loony left, i'm centre right.

I'm somewhat radically spread across the table, when I haven't drunkenly slid beneath it.

When exactly is a better question. There's a number of points from the 2005 Labour manifesto I still haven't ticked off yet. A certain referendum tops the list.

Which is why I'm never bothered by a few absurd promises when they are a fringe party I'm more concerned over what a party will do when they reach power.

Try this one on for size, labour said they would cut red tape.

[VALIS]

Erm...
Scrap the Human Rights Act



Scrap the Human Rights Act



You would wouldn;t you.

-----------------------------

Sure it sounds good, but err...how exactly are they going to do what they said? Thats just a list of points, not a plan on how to do it. Besides their plan is bullcrap.

God if people consider voting for parties like this, this country is going to be a mess in 30 years time.

Oh yeah traitors suck!"!

I think its the European Human Rights Act that they're opposed to, not human rights in general. The European human right laws and cases are decided in a foreign country and operated by an institution that can override sovereign British courts and laws. The European Human Rights Act erodes British sovereignty.
That is what UKIP (and any right minded person) is opposed to.

[VALIS]

I'd vote for them much sooner than I'd vote for the other parties, UKIP sound like they have their heads screwed on right.

[Yorkshireman]

I'd vote for them much sooner than I'd vote for the other parties, UKIP sound like they have their heads screwed on right.

I would if I thought they had a chance of getting in any sort of position of power. (Then again unless people vote for them, they never will, you know what I mean!)

[VALIS]

I would if I thought they had a chance of getting in any sort of position of power. (Then again unless people vote for them, they never will, you know what I mean!)

This is true, I doubt UKIP will ever gain enough votes to get into power either, however if enough people vote for them it can bring attention to the feelings of many Britons, a protest vote, and possibly create a shift in British politics towards the right or centre right in the future.

[s.rwitt]

I'd vote for them if I was British.

[Shaun]

They're certainly far better than the other far right party: the infamous BNP.

[molonthegreat]

I don't understand what' s so bad about them?

[VALIS]

I don't understand what' s so bad about them?

Nothing.
If you're a mentally sound, reasonable person who possess a modicum of intellect.
However our friends on the far left are not so fortunate to possess such qualities and are deathly afraid of a political party that doesn't subscribe to the liberal policies of high taxation, softness on crime, demented ideas on green issues, weakness pertaining to the military and the like.

Look for UKIP to be slandered as racists and facists by the loony left shortly.

[molonthegreat]

Nothing.
If you're a mentally sound, reasonable person who possess a modicum of intellect.
However our friends on the far left are not so fortunate to possess such qualities and are deathly afraid of a political party that doesn't subscribe to the liberal policies of high taxation, softness on crime, demented ideas on green issues, weakness pertaining to the military and the like.

Look for UKIP to be slandered as racists and facists by the loony left shortly.

We have such things over here too where right parties are being portrayed as nazis.