Unrest in Sicily constantly.

[Captain Jin]

I'm playing RTRPlatinum with Marcus Camilius' general mod and 4tpy mod. I really like the way the general mod works and it's fun to have four turns. The problem I'm having though, I just recently conquered the rest of Sicily from Carthage with Rome. Lilybaum and Agrigento are always having terrible attitudes toward me and they revolt often and destory buildings. I've built a ton of additions in both cities. Walls, sewers, temples, auxilia, and nothing gives. Any suggestions? Now the revolts are even spreading to Southern Italy in places like Croton etc. It's really upsetting considering the infrastructure I've built everywhere.

[morteduzionism]

It could be a couple of things. Spies, bad decisions on your part or just garrisons too small.

Spies-this is the most likely culprit since you stated that you've pretty much built all the buildings that would help. Since you already have the cities the only choice you have for finding whether or not it is spies is to get a spy and a governor with high influence(Priest of Saturnus doesn't hurt either) to spend a few turns in each of the troubled cities. This will cause the spies to be kicked out where you can then try to assassinate them.

A tip if you plan to start over, next time before you take a Sicilian city send a spy/assassin around Sicily to clear it out first. Carthage uses spies. In all likelihood Carthage had/has spies in both Lilybaeum and Agrigentum*

player decisions-did you destroy the foreign temples? Although I don't think this is your problem maybe you destroyed the foreign buildings too soon. I think it's best to destroy buildings when you can immediately replace them.

i.e. you shouldn't destroy the temple in Lilybaeum until you have built Societas(or whatever your 3rd level citizenship bldg is called)...

On a side note do all the cities have temples? Sometimes you get cities with alot of development but without temples erected by the previous owners...added with the difference in faction/type govt...you may get unrest

garrisons-if you've been occupying cities then Syrakuse will be a problem because of its' size/population. You're not going to be able to get away with 2-4 units, not for a long whie(maybe never)...

Also, do you have governors in the cities? If so, what are their skills? Check your governors because sometimes they are the sole reason for a city underperforming. Sometimes they can be the direct cause of unrest. Downright Miserly, if one of the governors has this trait...

*As long as I've played RTW/RTR I've never played as another faction other than Rome. I've started and restarted an ungodly amount of campaigns. I used to have the same problem you're asking about(Syracuse, Lilybaeum and Agrigentum) I even resorted to 'Exterminating' the populations of each of those cities because I knew the unrest would get me. You know what I found out? That the single/most common cause of unrest in Sicily was: Carthaginian spies.

Edit:
Greeks use spies too. So don't get stuck looking for Carthaginian spies look for Greeks too. Look at this: Syracuse(10K people+) + distance from capital + squalor + a greek spy + a carthaginian spy + governor with little to no influence = a city that won't be calmed even if you put a full stack in there. I've seen instances where there's a Greek and a Carthaginian spy in Syracuse. I didn't take the city then, I used up a few assassins to kill them and then attacked the city.

[Captain Jin]

Well after posting this I looked around the forums for similiar ideas and the spy thing came up quite often. So I built an army of spies and sent them off to Sicily as well as putting each one in a town there and in Southern Italy. No foreign spies have been detected (though there were a ton of them when Carthage still occupied some of Sicily, and regrettably I never did anything with them) and I pushed decent Governors in there once more came of age and then I trained them in Rome. The generals mod sees that I wait till they are twenty before I use them and though open revolt has gone down I still get the red unhappy Icon quite often, as well as blue disillusioned.

When I look at my town it says squalor is a huge casue but I've built sewers and every other building that helps with health and still no results. I'm having this issue where these cities are saying they've grown large enough to expand and that I must build a pro-consuls palace, yet this palace is not showing up in the building browser.

Worse yet, I fight Carthage in Africa, the Gauls to the North and now Macedon as I desperately attempt to keep the Illyrians alive so as to have a buffer. So my money is being drained like crazy. I look at most of my cities now and while they were booming not so long ago, now most have negative outputs which isn't helping my treasury one bit. I've been agressive with Gaul and only one province left to beat before I've secured that front but Carthage wants no treaty, and to be honest I don't want to give one. I want to raze Carthage to the ground then I want to beat the Macedonians back into their mountainous homes. But I can't do it with cities not producing and no civil support back home. To wage wars abroad I have to have support at home. Thank you for your help. Any other tips would be most appreciated.

[morteduzionism]

Well after posting this I looked around the forums for similiar ideas and the spy thing came up quite often. So I built an army of spies and sent them off to Sicily as well as putting each one in a town there and in Southern Italy. No foreign spies have been detected (though there were a ton of them when Carthage still occupied some of Sicily, and regrettably I never did anything with them) and I pushed decent Governors in there once more came of age and then I trained them in Rome. The generals mod sees that I wait till they are twenty before I use them and though open revolt has gone down I still get the red unhappy Icon quite often, as well as blue disillusioned.

If the spy is already in the city he may not be kicked out on the first turn using one spy. Use multiple spies in each city and use a single spy to walk around Sicily. Spies disappear so you may lose track of them.

Assassins too. You could have Assassins sabotaging stuff(unlikely but possible)

Also, the 16-20yos(shouldn't be governors...but that's my opinoon) you mentioned, how much influence do they have? Influence increases public order. Another thing, what traits do they have? If you're trying to suppress unrest you should use governors that have the 'Authoritarian' or 'Political Animal' etc...because they add to 'Law' and reduce unrest. The best way to get those types of traits is to have a Temple of Saturnus in Rome.

When I look at my town it says squalor is a huge casue but I've built sewers and every other building that helps with health and still no results. I'm having this issue where these cities are saying they've grown large enough to expand and that I must build a pro-consuls palace, yet this palace is not showing up in the building browser.

This is an easy one.

If a city "grows" and you do not build the governors residence, squalor increases. Every turn(it's some formula that I don't know)

In order to build the next governors residence you have to have the correct "market" level built. So build a 'Forum' and you should be able to build the palace.

Worse yet, I fight Carthage in Africa, the Gauls to the North and now Macedon as I desperately attempt to keep the Illyrians alive so as to have a buffer.

This is bad. This is real bad. What year are you in? Depending on how you've developed your infrastructure you could be in real trouble.

You have to choose. You need to, IMO, get a peace treaty/trade rights with either Carthage or Makedonia. Carthage is probably better choice(but not until you've taken Corsica/Sardinia and own 100% of Sicily) and easier to get. That way you can use the income gained from trading with Carthage to finance the wars in the Balkans.

Also, I've noticed that you can remain at peace with Gaul as long as you don't take Ariminum(they'll attack you if you take that city), taking Arretium is fine. The point is you'd want to keep the peace with Gaul for as long as possible in order to concentrate on restricting Makedonian/Greek growth and securing Italy/Corsica/Sardinia. Once youve done this, and negotiated a cease fire & trade right with Carthage you can turn your attention to the north & east. After you've cleared Carthage out of your sphere-of-influence*(Italy/Sicily/Corsica/Sardinia) and Hamilicar spawns in Sicily they'll accept a cease fire/trade rights.

So my money is being drained like crazy. I look at most of my cities now and while they were booming not so long ago, now most have negative outputs which isn't helping my treasury one bit.

I'm not sure if you can judge your economy by the numbers under your city(if that's what you meant)...I don't know for sure but I don't think that'll tell you anything useful.

The best thing is look at the 'Financial Tab' on the Faction Overview screen and determine which of your expenses you can reduce. Also, make sure you have your taxes on High at the least.

I've been agressive with Gaul and only one province left to beat before I've secured that front but Carthage wants no treaty, and to be honest I don't want to give one. I want to raze Carthage to the ground then I want to beat the Macedonians back into their mountainous homes. But I can't do it with cities not producing and no civil support back home.

That's why I asked what year are you in? You may be moving too fast.

It is somewhat possible to prosecute all the wars you're fighting and still be making enough money that you'd have to try and avoid the 50K penalty. But that would be dependent on how you developed your Republic.

IMO, I think you're troubles are only starting. Which faction controls the territories on the otherside of the Alps? It doesn't really matter. If it's Gaul in all likelihood they'll continue to send army after army into Cisalpine Gaul for years(even after you take the last city). Unless you meant you've already gone pass the Alps.

If it's Germania they'll start attacking you too. Illyria will then be able to easily attack your cities in the north. Since you're keeping the Maks off the Illyrians' back they're using all that income from the mines in the Balkans to attack you. Ungrateful, aren't they?

To wage wars abroad I have to have support at home.

That's why it's more favorable(IMO) to expand slowly. That way you can better develop your infrastructure to support foreign adventures.
_____________________
*I've noticed that if you take certain cities(i.e. Aleria & Lilybaeum) too soon, Carthage will attack them relentlessly. What I've discovered is that if you wait until after Hamilicar spawns(@247BC) and then take them Carthage doesn't constantly attack and will agree to a cease fire.

So, expand all the way to Agrigentum and stop. Leave an army in Sicily to protect your cities from Carthaginian raids. Other than that do nothing. You should be able to get to Agrigentum by @270-260BC. What do you do for 20+ years? Nothing. You spend every denari on developing your cities and defending them from the sporadic Illyrian raids. You might can get away with sending the Sicilian army into Africa(not to conquer) in order to support Numidia, take a few Carthaginian cities and gift them to Numidia. Other than that you do nothing until Hamilicar arrives.

When he does spawn, kill him. Take Lilybaeum. Take Corsica/Sardina. Start asking Carthage for a cease fire. Pack up your army in Sicily and return to Italy. Take Ariminum which starts a war with Gaul...you'll pretty much be back in the same situation you're in now, the difference is you would've spent 10-20yrs focusing on improving your infrastructure and developing a surplus in your treasury as opposed to fighting unnecessary wars for the same period.

Another benifit to expanding slowly is that you allow the AI factions to grow and gain the ability to recruit their more elite units. Fighting them is more fun/challenging than rolling over hordes of Warbands and rooty-poot Spearmen.

Hope some of this helps.

[Delvecchio1975]

I exterminate, raize ALL buildings to the ground that i can, start building temples, then sewers, then market places (so i can upgrade immediately when the cities grows). Deleting even the ports makes sure those cities don't grow to fast initially, giving you some precious time to upgrade everything.

[Mikail Mengsk]

I think it depends of what faction have you chosen. Someone said Tarentum was always revolting, but in my campaign with carthage I have no problem there: 4 units garrison and no governor, loyalty always over 125%.

Anyway, enslaving populace i think it's always a good idea. I don't like exterminating because i prefere to make my cities to grow up, so i just enslave the rebels and bring them in my older cities.

[Mikail Mengsk]

a very good strategy

[Captain Jin]

I appreciate the help.

The last update where I left I had already beaten Gaul. I've taken all of Western Europe and pressed up to the Northern territories bordering Germania. They haven't touched me yet at all.

My war with Carthage came to an end with a peace treaty after I secured Sicily which now enjoys good population. I have a pretty deep spy network all over Sicily and haven't had any problems since I smashed all the Carthaginians buildings.

Macedon was the troublesome one as they finally killed off Illyria and we fought several battles up near Luvavum and Aquillia. I won some costly but very important battles and built an Army that fortunately was finished before I went into the negatives. I brought them by sea into the bottom tip of Greece which was lightly defended. Then I took each city and broke everything to pieces inside. I brought my best General Decius the Victor, back from his campaign in Gauls and using money I made taking Greek cities (owned by Macedon) I retrained his Veteran army and sent them into Greek to back up my green Army and their young general who had made a lot of progress but had yet to face a Macedonian force. Decius arrived and reinforced him just in time as the Macedonians countered me near Athens which I was seiging. Decius and his veteran legion beat them, we took Athens and Chalksipdes.

Since then I've spread further into Greece with little trouble. Since Ive taken Macedonian strongholds they can no long build good troops to counterattack me and I've taken the provinces with mines to help stabilize and expand my floundering economy. This worked with great success but took some deal of time. Ive built Pro Consuls palaces in several cities and Imp Palace in Rome. Ive been upgrading all of my ports to Shipwrights or dockyards.

Carthage meanwhile took our peace time to move into Iberia. I was immediately asked by the Iberians for an alliance. I have Massilia and Gergovia currently developing to be Legion recruiting areas for a Western expansion. I used the Iberian/Carthage conflict as an excuse to move into Iberian lands and take them without fighting Iberia. I beat back Carthage pretty badly after they fought some Iberian armies. I brought Decius the Victor here as well so he may be my greatest general ever. Unfortunately after a few years and several victories he died of old age. That's where I've left off.

The real worry will be the Ptolemain Empire whom Ive been allied to all game. But they have taken everything East of Byzantium. EVERYTHING, including Byzantium. From there they went North and destroyed the Sarmatians so now Im holding off on the Macedonians so they can weaken the Ptolemies as Im sure theyll eventually attack me.

I think the years is 217 BC or so because Ive been using the Four turn per year mod.

[Tiberius Tosi]

The real worry will be the Ptolemain Empire whom Ive been allied to all game. But they have taken everything East of Byzantium. EVERYTHING, including Byzantium. From there they went North and destroyed the Sarmatians so now Im holding off on the Macedonians so they can weaken the Ptolemies as Im sure theyll eventually attack me.

I think the years is 217 BC or so because Ive been using the Four turn per year mod.

Build a rather large fleet, unless you control the seas but judging by how big the Ptolemies are I would guess you do not control the seas, and stick a decent general on there. You can throw in a couple of units of whatever you want if you wish. Get TONS of spies, like 10 or more if you want. Now load you general and your spies on the ship and take them to modern day Jerusalem/lebanon/gaza, basically just around that whole strip of coast there and land you general anywhere(I only choose this because there are many close together cities here, you really can do it anywhere you want). Go around and recruit as many mercenaries as possible until you have a full stack. Now send all 10 spies in to one city, attack it with the mercenaries (don't bother fighting the battles yourself, theyre mercs so they can be replaced easily). Then exterminate that city, destroy all buildings, and leave and siege another town, build as many siege towers or sapping things (personal preference) and siege the city for one turn. The next turn, attack, exterminate, destroy buildings. Repeat this process until you have destroyed a lot of the Ptolemies infastructure, and that should slow their progress down a lot. I do it with Carthage all the time (I NEVER take Carthage itself though lol). Once those spies get good enough, you should be able to take like 4 cities per turn depending on if you are lucky (if they open the door or not) and how far apart the cities are.

If it seems like cheating to you then by all means don't do it. If you prefer to send a real legion in there then do that too, I have done that a couple of times but find that mercs are better suited for the job or their replacability. I only do it because it seems to usually at least slow some of the repetetive wave after wave after wave of stacks that the powerhouse of the east sends at me.

Also you could use spies to give them disease, that's always a fun thing to do. Just never invade after you give a country a disease, I did that once because I was impatient, bad idea. I ended up halting by 8 stack Macedonian army in Asia Minor for about 5 years because disease was taking it's toll on my guys and I was only spreading it more. Sorry I just realized this was extremely lengthy....

[morteduzionism]

I think the years is 217 BC or so because Ive been using the Four turn per year mod.

Have you ever tried to just beat their armie instead of taking over their territory? I mean in the early game, instead of conquering all of Gaul so quickly you could've marched an army up into Gaul fought alot of their armies(which reduces their ability to wage war) and then came back to Rome. Wash/Rinse/Repeat.

That way you leave them intact to allow them to develop better units(which are more fun to fight)...

When it comes to the Peloponneses, just do the same thing. If Greece/Makedonia get too big send in an army crush their armies maybe take some cities not to keep but to gift back to other factions like Thrace, Sarmatia, Illyria, etc...

You still get an army with alot of experience and the benifit is that you'll keep other factions alive to make your game more interesting in the late game...

Just suggesting something I thought might make your game more interesting, challenging and fun...

[Mikail Mengsk]

You should better focus against the Ptolemies, or every victory in the West would not help you when they will attack you.

[Captain Jin]

Hey no worries, I appreciate the help. I was planning on doing something very similar to that idea. But I was going to bring a full legion stack with some generals then buy up mercenaries. I've found it easy to take over cities with a full stack when you have another full stack nearby. It seems to discourage the enemy from saving their beluegered comrades.

[Captain Jin]

I was thinking about that for my next game because at this point I'm just racing to compete with Ptolemy and Carthage. Macedon, Iberia, and Germania are the only other remaining factions.

[morteduzionism]

I was thinking about that for my next game because at this point I'm just racing to compete with Ptolemy and Carthage. Macedon, Iberia, and Germania are the only other remaining factions.

Good luck! Make sure to keep a Spy and may an Assassin with the army...

Illyrians, Maks and Greeks all use assassins.