Of hoplitai and sparabara

[Publius Quirinus]

Well... I'm a new RTR player (from vanilla), and I'm curious about the Greeks' hoplitai. They look like they're in a phalanx, and I'm pretty sure the description says that they form phalanxes, but they charge into an enemy, and their unit doesn't have the phalanx button. What are they, actually? Are they regular spearmen?

A second, unrelated question is about the Persian phalanx pikemen versus the Persian sparabara, recruitable side by side. Although the former costs slightly more to recruit, they have the exact same upkeep as the latter, plus they can form the phalanx, and have similar stats. What is the point of training Persian sparabara over Persian phalanx pikemen?

[florin80]

1. check the pinned thread on changes done to units.
2. they are a different type of units. It`s like asking what`s the point to recruit pikemen instead of hoplites. Both existed, both are in. That`s the historical reason behind them. Gameplay wise they`re also different at least because of the phalanx ability. It means different attributes in EDU with different bonuses and penalties towards infantry and cavalry. Not to mention the mobility factor and the ability to keep the enemy at a distance with the pikes/spears.

[Publius Quirinus]

Thanks...

2. They no longer have the phalanx ability, but still organize themselves in phalanx-like formation.

Does that mean they are regular spearmen?

[florin80]

Thanks...


Does that mean they are regular spearmen?

In a way yes, but they also have the short_pike attribute in EDU. Besides the visual difference of how they hold the spear and its length it also does this:

short_pike: Use shorter than normal spears. Can be used with phalanx ability or without it. The unit is still considered as infantry (and not spearmen). Grants a bonus of 8 versus mounted units, but due to the qualities of the formation (spacing, cohesion, etc) it seems that it roughly gets an extra -1 versus everyone. It also seems that short_pike overrides light_spear and spear, so that when the two are combined spear/light_spear is ignored, though due to it's own qualities it does slightly affect combat, depending on the units involved.

from here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111344

[Tiberius Nero]

The formation the hoplites fight in is phalanx, just not the pikeman phalanx obviously sibce they don't use pikes. "Phalanx" is a word used to describe a closed formation with interlocked shields as I understand it; Caesar uses the word for the Gallic formations as well.

The word basically means "battle formation", "army arrayed for battle" so you get the point, I guess.

Sparabara have different uses than the Persian pikemen; they are better for guarding the flanks against cavalry due to their mobility, a pikeman phalanx cannot respond as quickly. Your main battle line should be made of pikemen and sparabara for the flanks.

[Mikail Mengsk]

yes.