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  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    April 20, 2008
    Associated Press
    BAGHDAD - Anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr gave a "final warning" to the government Saturday to halt a U.S.-Iraqi crackdown against his followers or he would declare "open war until liberation."

    A full-blown uprising by al-Sadr, who led two rebellions against U.S.-led forces in 2004, could lead to a dramatic increase in violence in Iraq at a time when the Sunni extremist group al-Qaida in Iraq appears poised for new attacks after suffering severe blows last year.

    Al-Sadr's warning appeared on his Web site as Iraq's Shiite-dominated government claimed success in a new push against Shiite militants in the southern city of Basra. Fighting claimed 14 more lives in Sadr City, the Baghdad stronghold of al-Sadr's Mahdi Army.

    Fighting in Sadr City and the crackdown in Basra are part of a government campaign against followers of al-Sadr and Iranian-backed Shiite splinter groups that the U.S. has identified as the gravest threat to a democratic Iraq.

    Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, also a Shiite, has ordered al-Sadr to disband the Mahdi Army, Iraq's biggest Shiite militia, or face a ban from politics.

    In the statement, al-Sadr lashed back, accusing the government of selling out to the Americans and branding his followers as criminals.

    Al-Sadr, who is believed to be in Iran, said he had tried to defuse tensions last August by declaring a unilateral truce, only to see the government respond by closing his offices and "resorting to assassinations."

    "So I am giving my final warning ... to the Iraqi government ... to take the path of peace and abandon violence against its people," al-Sadr said. "If the government does not refrain ... we will declare an open war until liberation."

    Al-Sadr's statements came as al-Qaida in Iraq announced a one-month offensive against U.S. troops. In a new audiotape released on a militant Web site, a man claiming to be the purported leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, called on followers to attack U.S. soldiers and members of awakening councils, Sunni Arab tribesmen and former insurgents who changed sides and are now fighting al-Qaida.

    A week of violence has raised concerns that suspected Sunni insurgents are regrouping in the north. U.S. and Iraqi troops have stepped up security operations in Mosul, believed to be one of the last urban strongholds of al-Qaida in Iraq.

    U.S. officials say the awakening councils and al-Sadr's truce were instrumental in reducing violence last year. But the truce is in tatters after Iraqi forces launched an offensive last month against "criminal gangs and militias" in the southern city of Basra.

    The conflict spread rapidly to Baghdad, where Shiite militiamen based in Sadr City fired rockets at the U.S.-protected Green Zone, killing at least four Americans. U.S. officials say many of the rockets fired at the Green Zone were manufactured in Iran.

    The Iranians helped mediate a truce March 30, which eased clashes in Basra and elsewhere in the Shiite south. But fighting persisted in Baghdad as U.S. and Iraqi forces sought to push militiamen beyond the range where they could fire rockets and mortars at the Green Zone.

    The Americans are attempting to seal off much of Sadr City, home to an estimated 2.5 million people, and have used helicopter gunships and Predator drones to fire missiles at militiamen seeking refuge in the sprawling slum of northeast Baghdad.

    At a news conference Saturday, Iran's ambassador to Baghdad said his government supports the Iraqi move against "lawbreakers in Basra" but that the "insistence of the Americans to lay siege" to Sadr City "is a mistake."

    "Lawbreakers (in Basra) must be held accountable ... but the insistence of the Americans to lay siege to millions of people in a specific area and then bombing them randomly from air and damaging property is not correct," Ambassador Hassan Kazemi Qomi said.

    Qomi warned that the American strategy in Sadr City "will lead to negative results for which the Iraqi government must bear responsibility."

    At least 14 people were killed and 84 wounded in Saturday's fighting in Sadr City, police and hospital officials said. Sporadic clashes were continuing after sundown, with gunmen darting through the streets, firing at Iraqi police and soldiers who have taken the lead in the fighting.

    The U.S. military said its forces in Sadr City killed seven "criminals" - two in gunbattles and five in two separate airstrikes. The military said it does not engage if civilians are spotted in the area.

    According to the Interior Ministry, at least 280 Iraqis have been killed in Sadr City fighting since March 25, including gunmen, security forces and civilians.

    In Basra, Iraq's second largest city about 340 miles southeast of Baghdad, Iraqi soldiers backed by British troops pushed their way into Hayaniyah, the local stronghold of al-Sadr's Mahdi militia.

    As the operation got under way, British cannons and American warplanes pounded an empty field near Hayaniyah as a show of force "intended to demonstrate the firepower available to the Iraqi forces," said British military spokesman Maj. Tom Holloway.

    Last month, Iraqi troops met fierce resistance when they tried to enter Hayaniyah. On Saturday, however, Iraqi soldiers moved block by block, searching homes, seizing weapons and detaining suspects.

    Lt. Gen. Ali Ghaidan said he expected the whole area to be secured by Sunday. He said troops had detained a number of suspects but refused to give details until the area was cleared.

    The fighting in both Basra and Baghdad is part of a campaign by al-Maliki, a Shiite, to break the power of Shiite militias, especially al-Sadr's Mahdi Army, and improve security in southern Iraq before provincial elections this fall.

    Al-Sadr's followers believe the campaign is aimed at weakening their movement to prevent it from winning provincial council seats at the expense of Shiite parties that work with the United States in the national government.

    Tensions between the Sadrists and other Shiite parties have been rising for months before the Basra crackdown and escalated after parliament last month approved a new law governing the provincial elections.

    Clashes also broke out near Nasiriyah, a Shiite city about 200 miles southeast of Baghdad, leaving at least 22 people dead, police said. A curfew was clamped on the town of Suq al-Shiyoukh, where the fighting broke out between police and al-Sadr's followers.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. military said an American soldier was killed by a roadside bomb while on patrol in Salahuddin province. The military did not release the soldier's name, pending notification of family.

    The military also said Saturday that an Army Special Forces soldier was killed by a burst of small-arms fire while trying to capture an al-Qaida leader in an Iraqi town.

    Staff Sgt. Jason L. Brown, 29, was killed early Thursday during a combat operation in Sama Village, the U.S. Army Special Operations Command said in a statement.

    At least 4,039 members of the U.S. military have now died since the war started in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.
    http://www.military.com/news/article...-uprising.html

    For a while I had faith that this guy changed. Looks like he hasn't.

    This time let's kill the Mother er once and for all and not let him live like the last two times. Maybe we should offer to end sanctions in Iran in return for delivering his head and the heads of his leadership to us...

    He should have died in the first Battle of Najaf. We had him surrounded but the Iraqi government decide it would be good for reconciliation to let him live.
    Last edited by Farnan; April 20, 2008 at 10:52 AM.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Everyone can see how we're fighting "al qaeda and other extremists", right?

    anyone? anyone?

  3. #3
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    Everyone can see how we're fighting "al qaeda and other extremists", right?

    anyone? anyone?
    What do you think Al-Sadr is?

    For once I thought he was more moderate...
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  4. #4
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Another day, another threat. Sadr is nothing more than a mouth piece for his 'generals', who are really instructing their men to fight a run and gun campaign against us this very minute.

    I wish he would make up his mind one way or the other, so we can finally deal with Sadr City.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  5. #5
    NaptownKnight's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Why don't we assassinate the leaders of these insurgencies? Sadr, Bin Laden, etc., would all be six feet under if I were president.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by NaptownKnight View Post
    Why don't we assassinate the leaders of these insurgencies? Sadr, Bin Laden, etc., would all be six feet under if I were president.
    Sadr is the only one keeping them back, if he wanted to he could give the order and his several tens of thousand militia would be a serious serious problem.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian
    Caelius, do you think kill ratios are important when it comes to insurgencies?
    Um...yes?

    Any military officer (or non-com) half their worth would agree with me. Such statistics are excellent measures of how combat takes place and is prosecuted at the tactical level.

    Reporting the kind of kill ratios the Iraqi Army has in comparison to the JAM also serves to dispel the rediculous notion that Sadr's forces are capable of beating Iraqi or US troops in battlespace engagements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Spamurai
    Just look at Vietnam and Somalia, the US had excellent kill ratios in both.
    Correct. The US won every single battle of the Vietnam War, and enjoyed similar (if not greater) tactical supremacy during the Black Hawk down incident as well despite being heavily outnumbered and in an operation that had a heavy amount of Murphy's Law in effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian
    Hearts and minds. Improve the lives of ordinary Iraqis. Get the utilities working correctly (like electricity), provide jobs. These things have to be concentrated on. Thats the only way to beat an insurgency.
    Did you bother to read any of those articles I posted?

    The operation involves more than military operations, as the Iraqi government seeks to wrest control of the Mahdi Army's grip on public services inside Sadr City. "The aim now is to launch an ambitious plan of 30-day, 60-day, and 90-day public works and services-improvement projects designed to convince the local population that the Iraqi government -– and not Sadr's Mahdi Army militia –- is best able to improve the quality of life in an impoverished expanse of pot-holed streets, open sewers, and joblessness," the Christian Science Monitor reported. "US and Iraqi military are now set up and living among the Sadr City residents in the 'demonstration' area of the southern third of the sector."
    Quote Originally Posted by kb8
    Sadr is the only one keeping them back, if he wanted to he could give the order and his several tens of thousand militia would be a serious serious problem.
    Sadr doesn't control that many people i'm afraid, and even the ones who are "in his wing" are fractured along a divided command structure. More than a few elements of the Mahdi militia forces don't even follow Sadr's orders anymore.

  8. #8
    Lord Consul's Avatar Armchair intellectual
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius View Post

    Correct. The US won every single battle of the Vietnam War, and enjoyed similar (if not greater) tactical supremacy during the Black Hawk down incident as well despite being heavily outnumbered and in an operation that had a heavy amount of Murphy's Law in effect.
    America won every single battle but lost the war.



    That picture shows clearly the results of all these American "successes". Stakes are higher this time around, I fear.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    I think it should be the other way around. We're fighting "extremists and other al qaeda"

    Thats more accurate

  10. #10

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    I don't see how the Shia militias are "extremists".

  11. #11
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    I don't see how the Shia militias are "extremists".
    The Mahdi Army has two types of people:

    1. Those who merely wish to join the group to defend their families from Sunni Extremists. Once a significant body, probably lowered significantly by joining the Awakening groups (which are 20% Shi'ite) or the fact there is less Sunni on Shi'ite violence.

    2. Sectarians who are extremists.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  12. #12

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Nice statement to celebrate Hitlers birthday...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    extremists is a catch-all term for anybody who isnt al qaeda


    It'd be more accurate to say that we're fighting autonomous iraqi patriot militia

  14. #14

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    this guy definitely needs to die.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    nah...he just needs to find Jesus

  16. #16

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    :O well I just dont think fatty will be any good for the iraqi people.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    I find it odd to my american sensibilities that the iraqi government has the right to order al sadr and his militia to disband.

    I wonder what the iraqi constitution looks like, do they have any guarantee to bear arms like we do? somehow I doubt it, what a shame...

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    I find it odd to my american sensibilities that the iraqi government has the right to order al sadr and his militia to disband.

    I wonder what the iraqi constitution looks like, do they have any guarantee to bear arms like we do? somehow I doubt it, what a shame...
    Well I think your 2nd amendment rights can be revoked if you are threatening open war on the government.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by fatsheep View Post
    Well I think your 2nd amendment rights can be revoked if you are threatening open war on the government.

    "rights are not rights if they can be taken away, they're privileges"-George Carlin

    The second amendment guarantees americans the right to bear arms, even and especially for the grim prospect of armed revolution against our own government.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Al-Sadr threatens to renew war

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    "rights are not rights if they can be taken away, they're privileges"-George Carlin

    The second amendment guarantees americans the right to bear arms, even and especially for the grim prospect of armed revolution against our own government.
    Well technically if you're threatening the government with open war, they can order you to disband. Whether you listen or not is a different story. That's kind of the case here.
    "People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson


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