Peasant Pwnage... WTF??

[Sokar Rostau]

This has been bugging the crap out of me, but it doesn't matter anymore because I've moved on to another campaign... I'm still curious though.

I was playing my first (short) Byzantine campaign and the Hungarians had suddenly decided to attack. After lifting the siege on Constantinople I sent a full stack to Sofia consisting of a mix of Militia and Byzantine Spearmen, Frankish Knights (from an annexed settlement, not mercenaries), two Generals, one unit of Slav Mercenaries and assorted archers (Trebizond, Peasant, Bulgarian Brigands and I think one unit of mercenary crossbows).

When the time came to assault the fortress at Sofia I had a look at my enemy and smiled. There was 1 General, 2 Mailed Knights, 1 Hungarian Noble, 1 Dismounted Feudal Knights, 1 Peasant Archers, 1 Peasant Crossbowmen, 2 Town Militia, 1 Armoured Spearmen (maybe they were Sergeants?), 1 Spear Militia and 4 Peasants. I thought to myself "this is going to be easy" and started the battle.

I sent the Slavs to the gates with the ram, 2 units of Byzantine Spearmen on one side of the gate with ladders and another unit on the other side with my Bulgarian Brigands with a ladder on a distant wall backed up by 2 units of Militia Spearmen. The ram was destroyed so I sent the Slavs up the single ladder on the north side of the gate. The initial assault went incredibly smoothly with my forces annihilating the Hungarian Nobles, Peasant Archers, and all of their infantry except 10 Peasant Crossbows and the two units of Peasants which had remained within the inner walls. The enemy cavalry took no part in the assault. My Slavs and Bulgarians took 50% losses and one unit of Militia Spearmen was reduced by 75%, but otherwise losses were minimal and I was able to advance to the inner walls.

This is where it all went pear-shaped.

I sent four units of Spearmen to retrieve the ladders and set them up at the inner walls, which were defended by the remaining two units of Peasants and the 10 Crossbowmen. While waiting for the ladders to arrive I showered the walls with arrows and managed to kill half the Crossbows (causing them to rout again) and a few Peasants.

Just to make this perfectly clear - my infantry, consisting of well over 600 men, were assaulting a wall defended by around 130 Peasants and 5-6 Crossbowmen that routed as soon as they got near the walls and never fired anything. There were no ranged attackers left in the enemy army aside from those cowardly crossbowmen.

So, I order my men up the ladders, I had 2 units of Byzantine Spearmen that had only lost 2-5 men in the initial assault, and were thus fresh and eager. One of these was first up the ladders and the other I held in reserve while I sent up the Slavs and other units. I expected the Slavs to rout although I didn't expect them to route three times before finally fleeing with 7 men. What I didn't expect was for all of my men to rout as they got to the tops of the ladders, starting with the freshest and strongest unit I had. This wasn't a mass rout, it was just a matter of getting to the top of the walls and then running away for a short while. All 68 remaining Byzantine Spearmen fled halfway across the castle before regaining their composure. So I sent up the reserves... these guys didn't rout... they were utterly destroyed. 71 Byzantine Spearmen were destroyed by 53 peasants. The 68 that had already routed once were sent up to help and were reduced to 17 men before they, too, routed (again). Two units of Militia Spearmen went up the ladders with 50+ men and were left with 1 man each.

By the time I quit the battle in disgust there were ~40 Peasants, in two units left on the walls and 2 cowardly Crossbowmen. My army was destroyed. When I started to attack the inner walls I had over 600 infantry and a further 200 archers that were capable of melee. When I finished I had 12 Byzantine Spearmen in 4 routing units, 16 Militia Spearmen in 2 units, 7 Slav Mercenaries, no Bulgarians, 3 Trebizonds and about 10 Peasant Archers (they and the Byzantine Cavalry were positioned to attract arrows from the towers, which they did) and that is it.

Do the Hungarians feed their Peasants with medieval crack or something? How the hell does my army take the outer walls while destroying their best troops with ease and then be so utterly humiliated by a bunch of Peasants?

Pissed off, I reloaded and auto-resolved the battle with a loss of 168 men. The Hungarians are equally pissed off I guess because they have assaulted Sofia nine times in the past 12 turns and have another army on it's way.

[Imperator_Maximus]

I don't like seiges in this game for that reason. It seems that when you soldiers are confined to a small space on a wall, they get scared . This doesn't happen all the time, but when it does....aaaah stupid mother :wub:**s!

[roy34543]

Because theres a massive attack and defense bonus to the defenders and penalty to the attackers, which works awesomely for peasents as they have a fast animation but very low attack which suddenly becomes higher.

[Laconian]

Those peassants must have been feed some crazy crack. That's really bad luck.

[candle_86]

and this is why i always take a catapult at least to enemy towns

[blekaut]

When the pesants get med, they get mad =) There's nothing worse then angry farmers

[medieval elephant]

Unless you are very good at siege battles, I suggest you auto-resolve all of them, particularly the castle ones. If you win a siege battle, you automatically destroy all their troops, so its beneficial to use auto-resolve as both factions get less casualties. Also, when you're assaulting a castle, unless you have a spy inside who has opened the gates, don't ever actually play the siege, as its very likely your troops will get decimated trying to knock down a series of walls while getting pummelled by arrows.

[Old Geezer]

Ladders are dangerous. Over 11 million Americans die each year from climbing ladders in their homes and falling on their algores, because of global warming. Only use laddders on undefended areas or to draw defenders away. Peasants are brave behind castle walls, remember.

[cankles]

Ladders are dangerous. Over 11 million Americans die each year from climbing ladders in their homes and falling on their algores, because of global warming. Only use laddders on undefended areas or to draw defenders away. Peasants are brave behind castle walls, remember.

What does global warming have to do with falling off of ladders?

[Retribution]

Ladders are dangerous. Over 11 million Americans die each year from climbing ladders in their homes and falling on their algores, because of global warming.

HAHAHAHAHAH. Ahh that was funny.

[blekaut]

The thing I like to do with sieges is this: always have some missile cavalry or archers with you. Then wait until the enemy has to attack you. And you never have to get near the walls. If you have enough missile troops with you the fighting will be more or less your way and with no or minimal casualties.

[Trajan]

Moved to Battle Planning.

[masterbaker]

"It is easy to be brave behind a castle wall" Welsh Proverb. Can't say the game didn't warn you!

[oou420]

units are prone to running away when they are surrounded on a wall, did that ever happen? also have u checked that your spearmen were eager and fresh? sometimes units in sieges stand behind the ones attacking and tire out as they filter through the guys in front to try to fight, so they can be tired and have no casualties

[Old Geezer]

What does Global Warming have to do with it? Everything! It makes the ground soggy from excess rain in Europe and because they were able to grow grapes in Northeast England during the early middle ages due to global warming (which was real then) the soldiers got drunk and would tump off the unstable ladders and fall to their injury and humiliation.

[xj900uk]

Of course, if you have some serious artillery or catapults, then by all means play the siege out for real on the tactical map. Just stand back and hurl massive rocks or cannonballs at them, it is always great fun to score a direct hit on a wall and watch over a dozen plebs tumble off from the shock-waves/vibration of the hit

[cankles]

What does Global Warming have to do with it? Everything! It makes the ground soggy from excess rain in Europe and because they were able to grow grapes in Northeast England during the early middle ages due to global warming (which was real then) the soldiers got drunk and would tump off the unstable ladders and fall to their injury and humiliation.

LOL

[Sodbuster]

I had the same thing happen to me in an online game. I laddered up a wall manned by peasant archers and peasants with 4 varangian guards and 4 dismounted Latinkons, and the peasants won. They simply refused to rout, and my men moved so slow that they died from the towers faster than they killed the peasants.

[HopliteLysander]

Is there any advantage to using siege towers rather than ladders? basically you get a bunch of your guys on the wall at once instead of 4 at a time right? would this help?

[cankles]

Is there any advantage to using siege towers rather than ladders? basically you get a bunch of your guys on the wall at once instead of 4 at a time right? would this help?

With the ladders they only get on the wall 4 at a time and they are spread out, so moral usualy drops, and they get slaughtered. with the towers, usually five or six come out at a time, and its way faster, and they are all together. But ladders get to the walls quicker and are cheap.