Are these guys right or wrong to speak out?

[Heinz Guderian]

Breaking the Silence is a group formed 4 years ago by ex-IDF soldiers who often served in Hebron.

It is funded by the Jewish philanthropic Moriah Fund, the New Israel Fund, the British embassy in Tel Aviv and the EU.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...my-811769.html

They cover a range of experiences, from anger and powerlessness in the face of often violent abuse of Arabs by hardline Jewish settlers, through petty harassment by soldiers, to soldiers beating up Palestinian residents without provocation, looting homes and shops, and opening fire on unarmed demonstrators.

o we got hold of just some Palestinian kid nearby, we knew that he knew who it had been. Let's say we beat him a little, to put it mildly, until he told us. You know, the way it goes

Anyway, the kid was stood up, and couldn't stay standing on his own two feet. He was already crying ... And the commander continues, 'Don't pretend' and kicks him some more. And then [name withheld], who always had a hard time with such things, went in, caught the squad commander and said, 'Don't touch him any more, that's it.' The commander goes, 'You've become a leftie, what?' And he answers, 'No, I just don't want to see such things.'

the incidents in which Palestinian vehicles are stopped for no good reason, the windows smashed and the occupants beaten up for talking back – for saying, for example, they are on the way to hospital; the theft of tobacco from a Palestinian shopkeeper who is then beaten "to a pulp" when he complains; the throwing of stun grenades through the windows of mosques as people prayed. And worse.

Is this just left wing propaganda by lefties and traitors to Israel (traitors who served in the IDF) or something extremely rotten that wont get on cnn?

I suggest not reading the whole article if you easily get pissed off - just a warning.

[Thanatos]

There are scumbags in every military. So what?

[removeduser_426582376423734]

They are not reported to authority figures, authority figures themselves take part, it is part and parcel of the whole problem in Israel of xenophobia or at least hatred of Palestinians? Take your pick.

[Sosobra]

Is this just left wing propaganda by lefties and traitors to Israel (traitors who served in the IDF) or something extremely rotten that wont get on cnn?

I suggest not reading the whole article if you easily get pissed off - just a warning.

There are bad apples everywhere but this is indicative of a climate unacceptable behavior. Where people who wouldn't normally do bad things get sucked in by the climate of cruelty. I don't see how the ex IDF members telling there stories makes them lefties or traitors, imo weary vets unburdening their minds.

[jankren]

Cruel Israelis. Meh, just some bad apples.

Cruel Palestinians. ing terrorists, they all deserve what they got.

Interesting ...

[Chaigidel]

they should go home to jordan, and leave the jews alone.

[Heinz Guderian]

they should go home to jordan, and leave the jews alone.

who? the jewish IDF soldiers?

[jankren]

they should go home to jordan, and leave the jews alone.

I couldnt agree more. Give the West Bank back to Jordan and they will be home.

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

I couldnt agree more. Give the West Bank back to Jordan and they will be home.

Would the Palestinians agree to that? I mean that's the closest thing to a plan that might work to secure peace as I've ever heard.


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[jankren]

Would the Palestinians agree to that? I mean that's the closest thing to a plan that might work to secure peace as I've ever heard.


__________________________________

As I said, Jordan would declare West Bank an independent nation subsequently.

no you see it would be the opposite like the mexicans and the indians telling the whites who won the war to go home.

the jews won the war the palestinian people are finished, they will find another home.
It happens all the time, this time it just happened to some arabs and in time they will be forgotten,sad story it gets repeated and will be repeated until the end of time.

The thing is you said Palestinians should go back home to Jordan while almost all of them have never even been to Jordan. It would be a different case if you just said the Palestinians should just move to Jordan.

[dr0p]

I always get amused by these threads. They always enlighten me, teaching me things I never see by myself.
Jee, we, Israeli soldiers are very cruel over the internet. wish someone would stop us someday...

[Каие]

Would the Palestinians agree to that? I mean that's the closest thing to a plan that might work to secure peace as I've ever heard.

Of course why swap one oppreser for another, they want a democracy.

As I said, Jordan would declare West Bank an independent nation subsequently.

Lol, the Jordanians were just as bad as the Israelis, the palestinians want freedom, and democracy. Not be denied once again their self determination.

[danzig]

They arent wrong as long as their intention is to highlight real problems and not to be used as a propaganda tool. That always seems to be the problem with things like this. Context is everything.

[Chaigidel]

no the palestinians should leave the westbank to the jews, and go back home to jordan.

but yeah its kinda but that doesnt change my position, all I can say is you shoulda taught your kids not to blow themselves up on jewish kids.

[roy34543]

I highly doubt that jordan will even be wiling to aborb the west bank unless
A-its given a preperation period of several years,
B- huge funding comes from an indirect source. It would need to set up goverment official there and police etc.

[Nick_Since_1985]

Ah another Israel vs Palestine thread, I say "nuke them all"

[jankren]

I highly doubt that jordan will even be wiling to aborb the west bank unless
A-its given a preperation period of several years,
B- huge funding comes from an indirect source. It would need to set up goverment official there and police etc.

Jordan will accept the West Bank and declares it independent. Simple.

no the palestinians should leave the westbank to the jews, and go back home to jordan.

You are making no sense.

Its as ridiculous as saying Anglo-Saxon Americans should leave Baja California to the Mexicans and go back home to England while almost all of them have never even stepped their feet on the soil of England.

[roy34543]

Another christian vs muslim vs jew thread ! nuke them all! Another pro abortion vs anti-abortion thread, Nuke them all! Another Obama vs hilary vs mccain thread! Nuke them all!
You cant really get there with that attitude. And its such a cliche on this forum even if you meant it humorously its been said to excess by now.

[Каие]

Actually its a point i mentioned before over 3 thousand IDF soldiers refuse to be involved in the occupation.

They are not all bad, but it goes that way.

[mrmouth]

There is of course never any excuse for the actions these supposed IDF soldiers detail. I think it goes without saying though, tensions run fairly high in that region of the world, and we know how IDF soldiers are treated when taken captive.

I have a family member that served in the US Army for four years, traveled to Israel, and fell in love with an Israeli woman, eventually marrying her, and then joining the IDF after converting in '03. He is not beyond criticizing his new country, in fact he can be quite vocal in that regard.

He has however, painted a picture of a military in which professionalism and human rights of their enemy are stressed in a major way. In fact, a major part of training is human rights theory, not just the study of the Geneva Conventions. Every day after training, instructors will talk to their class about respecting the enemy, and just before graduation, a multi week course is hosted by Sayeret, where former commandos speak on their experiences.

While every Western military on earth will delve into the rights of the enemy and the GC, it would appear that the IDF goes well beyond what I experienced myself.



As far as speaking out, I never have a problem with that.