About al-Muwahhidun's units

[Chili tuna]

Hello guys.

I want to talk about faction al-Muwahhidun, aka Moors.
This faction is somewhat easy one, because of its positional and economic advantage.
Moors capital, Cordoba, is very abandant city.
Although pope often declare crusade against it.
The first crusade was a nightmare..
I myself cannot believe I defended Cordoba at last.

Moreover, Moors foes, spain and portugal, are piece of cakes in early time
in campaign.
Simply gather your generals at al-andalusia and blitz against portugal.
If you concentrate enough, garrison cannot stop you.
Portugal has only two cities.
That's it. Only left one is spanish. One foe would not be fatal threatenig.

Anyway, I want talk about problems of moors.
The problems of moors is that it doesn't have elite backbone units at all.
Someone may remind christian guards, nice elite unit of moors.
But if you had played al-Muwahhidun, you could notice that their elite unit,
christian guards(also foot guards, too) demand 60% of catholic population.
Of cause, you can't build churches in your islam citadel.
That means you must take catholic faction's citadels to recruiting your
elite units.
(To be honest, I think moors' the most valuable unit is cammel gunner.
I don't need any 'backbones' like octopus, actually. )

I don't know why this mod demanding christian population for christian guards.
If it's just penalty for moors, well, I accept this with only under the great durance.:hmmm:
But if it's for the historical reason, I cannot quite accept this.

Historically, moors' christian guards appeared when moors losing their control of al-andalusia.
In that time, moorish control region is full of muslim refugees so that there is relatively small
christian population.
Originally, al-Muwahhiduns are fundamentalists likes Talibans.
They hate christians but situation forced them to accept christian guards.
It doesn't means that al-Muwahhiduns also accept christian population generously.
(Well, sometimes they are torrelant to christians. Sometimes...)

Also, the reason moorish rulers hiring christians as their guards is that their christian guards
hardly have support to rebel against their employer.
Because they are strangers not only politically, but also religiously.
In other words, there is so small christian population in moorish andalusia, this armed
christians, christian guards, cannot expect local populations support when they rebel.

Actually, christian guards is similar with ERE's latincon.
Suppose you are recruiting latincon or janissary and it requires 60%
of catholic or orthodox populations. Isn't it funny?

So, I suggest that for recruiting christian guards, religion it demans must be large
muslim population not christian populations.
I think 80% of muslim population is sutable.
60% of muslim population means there are 40% of 'infidels', like christian guards,
and it's quite enough for rebelling, I think.


And I want to talk about 'black guard'.
In medieval total war II, nubian spearmen maybe.
But I think nubian spearmen is not black guard.
Even moors' foes admit that presents of black 'guard' and their fearless
morale.(Even this sexy and fearless africans cannot defeat crusader. That's true.)
Because they have nothing but their master.(Nothing to lose, the men became fearess.)

How about add black guards for al-Muwahhiduns?
Different with nubian spearmen, black guards must be quite a high class
unit but like most of moorish units, they are almost no amoured.
Maybe it reminds lamtuna spearmen, but I want to see macho africans
standing on the battlefield and figthing to death. Personal hope..


And I have question about tuareg. Both dismounted one and cammel riding one.
First, How can I recruit tuareg spearmen, dismounted one, in campaign?
I thought they are just deleted but I find them in custom battle.
Then I founded building for recruiting them in campaign but there's nothing.

Other question is about cost and upkeep for cammel riding one.
They are good enough against light carvarly, like jinetes or mounted sergerant.
Only if they run like hell and can catch up with them to engage...
But they cannot withstand against knights. They simply melt away.
The question is this. Why this unit so expensive?
No one says tuareg cammel riders actually 'heavy' cavarly.
I think there is no reason this unit so expensive.

[hekk]

It would be great if they got some more heavy infantry which are Moors instead of mercenaries like the Christian guard.

[d3v]

question: did the moors historically have these units that you want?

[Vangar]

question: did the moors historically have these units that you want?

If we'd only allow historical units, half of Lithuanias units had to be taken out of the game

[d3v]

If we'd only allow historical units, half of Lithuanias units had to be taken out of the game

ok, but you gotta raw the line somewhere between playability and historical diversity. where is the challege/beauty in giving every faction a balanced unit rooster? they're has to be some factions which do not have a balanced unit rooster for the sake of diversity and historical accuracy.

[Vangar]

I'm not a friend of those Lithuanian uber-units either, don't tell me. In fact, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to add ONE unit for the sake of entertainment and style, but Lit have like 4 or 5 heavy armoured "regular units" which look good, but someone clearly favoured Lithuania above the neighbouring, so to say

[Chili tuna]

question: did the moors historically have these units that you want?

Well..If my memory is fine enough...Yes. Moors had that kind of soldiers.
(But I must say I'm not a speciallist about that)

They did use christians as guards and african slaves as black guards.

But I'm not sure that christian guards are elite soldiers.

I have read historical material about reputation of black guards but christian guards...haven't.

Just saying Moors hired them to defend their declining territory against
christians.

But as you know, crusaders defeated both of them.

In my opinion, defeat of Moors in spanish peninsula is responsible for
their internal conflict, not their military weakness.

In fact, christians also had internal conflict but they 'often' united as one
under the banner of crusade.

Moreover, reconquesters got support of other christendom but Moors had to
fight with their own Moorish and andalusian.

Just like I was terrified in my campaign by almost all christendom joining
the crusade against my capital, Cordoba, and sieging its wall, waiting for
their trun.
(Of cause, in history, they are united as single force.)

[ivanhoex]

^^ lith is no prob (at least in my mod)...

anyway, lith has no gothic armour, have you seen a broken lance or a gothic knight, a lancer... gendarme... etc... they got nice armor, not lith.

[Creslin]

byzantine firethrowers. No unit is as unrealistic and stupidly overpowered as these guys.. i think the USMC would love to have those flamethrowers as I think they are better than the ones we have today. Only unit that can rack up like 1000 kills all by itself all while it makes the enemy route in about .5 seconds of the first shot they fire.

That said I think the muslim factions are sorta balanced against the fact that they are usually extremely rich since they are huge compared to most European factions so it makes sense that they all lack some of the better units like pikes.

[s.rwitt]

i think the USMC would love to have those flamethrowers as I think they are better than the ones we have today.

Are you a Marine?


Just asking because I'm going to MCRD San Diego in about a month.

[Leonnidas]

Internal fights 4power and the the division of the empire in small sutanates was the main reason 4the moors dawnfall. Some small sultans use to fight along with the cristians against other muslims just to save their ass.

[eelorriaga]

moors with stwong infantry army :

-the Almoravids ,they rely upon heavy infantry (like phalanx) and not hit & run tactics .
(In Arabic المرابطون al-Murabitun, sing. مرابط Murabit), were a Berber dynasty from the Sahara that spread over a wide area of North-Western Africa and the Iberian peninsula during the 11th century.
link :

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...tary_successes

-fatimid armies (The Fatimids, Fatimid Caliphate or al-Fātimiyyūn ) is the Arab Shi'a dynasty that ruled over varying areas of the Maghreb, Egypt, and the Levant from 5 January 909 to 1171)