Lazy barbarians? Clever barbarians?

[Stilgar CG]

I’ve playing Thrace recently and noticed a few issues with the unit command and movement with certain units. First, bastarnae and their mounted brothers (Thrace light cavalry) have pretty bad hearing or they are just lazy. On a number of occasions I observed that when I order attack or charge to Light cavalry, they just stand there (even if they are not exhausted; and I din not ask to charge spears). As far as I can remember, this happened particularly when the cavalry ran out of ammo (so, they do not like hand-to-hand combat, apparently :hmmm and during fights within cities. Bastarnae may be slow or irresponsive when asked to attack. On such occasions I have both units to move to a certain spot close to enemy and put them on guard mod, so they enter the fight whether they “like” it or not. Finally, my slingers (still fresh and with good morale) did not “get” it sometimes when I switch between run/walk commands. I asked to attack (one click) they ran, I switch to walk they stop … so, they ran all the time and got tired soon.
I played Romans and Greek Cities and notice none of those (XGM 5.6.3.). I do not think guard mod has something to do with it. Bug? Or a clever imitation of the human nature ?

[Kara Kolyo]

Some missile cavalry units are notorious for their reluctance to enter hand to hand combat. This is especially bad when they recieve order to chase routing units during sieges. It's a RTW bug though, not XGM. One easy way to make them fight when they are out of ammo, is to give them alt attack order - then they are much more responcive.

[Stilgar CG]

Ah, ok. So, alt+click, I see. Perhaps, bastarnae also are awaiting for the alt+click, rather than simple click on enemy, when they ran out of ammo.
I'll remember and use that.
Thanks Kara.

[Unknown Soldier]

for falxmen I always alt - double right click and sometimes you can even get a barbarian war cry on the way in for total butchery!

[Stilgar CG]

for falxmen I always alt - double right click and sometimes you can even get a barbarian war cry on the way in for total butchery!

I'll sure do this sort of moves oftener, Soldier. Falxmen can be good at those charges indeed, but they also die quite fast. So I keep just a unit or two (they are not cheap) to feel gaps in the main line or as hummer (at flanks, but also rear) to assist my spear/falanx units in mid-battle.
ME

[Scutarii]

I use falxmen as light flanking troops, as Light Cav just don't charge and survive that well.

[Spartan Guard Itachi]

how is ur thrace campaign going?

[Stilgar CG]

how is ur thrace campaign going?

Going well. I played mostly big factions (Romans, Greek, Cartage) before. Thrace campaign is quite another experience. Playing on M/H, BI.exe, in 262bc now. My economy is pretty healthy.

First, had to deal with Independent Gauls, of course. Beat two armies, captured a couple of cities. Some heavy fighting, losses, but still all under control. Then moved my attention to the Black Sea shore. Captured 2 Independent Greek cities, including Bizantium. I agree with the opinion that Bizantium is point of attraction for other factions in Asia Minor. In my case I had to deal with numerically superior Pontus armies. But Pontus did not land their best units and I had plenty of slingers and light cavalry, so no troubles there. At the same time, Bizantium is reach, and who owns it will come to the wall your city sooner rather than later.

The most interesting part just begins. I am fighting Scythia now. This is quite a rollercoster. Scythians came first with 2 relatively small armies (5-6 and 8-9 units). Routed them, but with quite an effort and losses. Thrace has no archers, no decent hand-to-hand cavalry, and is badly armored. So, I had to rely on light cavalry, slingers, some spearmen, and mercenary horse archers (you can get 2). I had to attack small stacks of Scythians, before they merge, otherwise no chance. Anyway, casualties were always high.
(N.B. This is my second compaign with Thrace. I lost first after a massive Scythian invasion coupled with Macedon and German attacks. Perhaps, I should start reloading my games from time to time ...

After dealing with first Scythian invasion, I decided to move to Scythia, when the luck stroke. A 9-10 unit army attacked me on the bridge. Whey all entered the water. Guess how many shevrons my slingers got? Well, its'kind of cheating, but I did not plan it, I swear . Then, I moved further and captured the Scythian city. Cannot recall the name, the one just near the Krimea. This is quite a breakthrough: I can train lancers now, foot archers, and ... thorakitai. The city and baracks were of higher level than any of mine cities apparently.

Then, I regrouped, had a few fights with the local Independendent Greek, but they were not numerous. My archers (both foot and horse) together with slingers did all the jub. The infantry was just watching and relaxing on the beach. Now Scythia is back with fresh armies, but their armies have less archers and noble archer, and more light cavalry. My horse-heavy army will deal with Scythia, while a small foot army will invade the Krimea and capture 2 Independent Greek cities and a Scythian settlement. So, I guess the worst is behind.

I am quite eager now to finish off Greeks in Krimea and Scythians and prepare for a campaign against Macedonia. I am almost ready. I can train hoplites, greek spearmen, and greek archers in Bizantium. Hope I will have a few turns to train also some lancers and thorakitai and move them closer to Macedon borders.

Germans just entered my frontiers (7-8 units army), but nothing I cannot handle. I kinda expected that.

So, it's great fun and more is comming up ...

P.S. After installing XGM, there is no comming back to vanilla RTW. I cannot live now without auxiliary barracks, ability to travel long distances, triariai at the very beginning of the game, better looking spartan hoplites etc. etc.
ME

[Scutarii]

Thrace has no archers, no decent hand-to-hand cavalry, and is badly armored.

The do have archers.... And any of their cav above Light Cav is pretty good (Barb Heavies and Nobles). Light Cav themselves can definitely take the Scythian HA's. Although their low end infantry is very badly armoured...

[Hurlbut]

The do have archers.... And any of their cav above Light Cav is pretty good (Barb Heavies and Nobles). Light Cav themselves can definitely take the Scythian HA's. Although their low end infantry is very badly armoured...

Peltasts are hardly armored

[Stilgar CG]

The do have archers.... And any of their cav above Light Cav is pretty good (Barb Heavies and Nobles). Light Cav themselves can definitely take the Scythian HA's. Although their low end infantry is very badly armoured...

Scutarii, I was refering to early Thrace game. Later on in the game Thrace gets good cavalry and infantry indeed. I am not sure Thrace light cavalry can "definetely take Scytian HAs". From my experience I learned that they should be numerically superior (3:2, better 2:1) to the HAs. HAs are also very fast and have better range, and get shevrons easier I guess. And noble archers are very good.
Importantly, the skirmish option should be off, otherwise light cavalry will be busy with getting out of the line of HAs fire and will be wasted in no time without doing any damage to HAs.
I am fighting Scythia now in my Thrace compaign. It is tough. Learned a few lessons, have a few ideas, but the future of my Thrace Empire is still uncertain: I am still on defence.
ME

[synthesis]

Anyone notice their mercenary warband being unable to cross a bridge in a battle?

[Stilgar CG]

Anyone notice their mercenary warband being unable to cross a bridge in a battle?

I sure seen german warband prefering to swim when the bridge was in front of their noses (literaly).

[Celt Centurion]

Anyone notice their mercenary warband being unable to cross a bridge in a battle?

I notice that it's hard to get anyone to cross a bridge in a battle. For some reason most units prefer to swim.

A real kicker came a few months ago. Two units of light cavalry were attacked by a full stack. I retreated. The full stack attacked again and my light cavalry was on a bridge.

I put them near the edge of the map either upsrtream or downstream, not sure which. Just when the enemy army, (mostly heavy infantry) are almost on me after crossing the bridge, I ordered them to swim across.

I thought for sure that they would get away and could keep it up until the clock ran out.

They Drowned! No spears, no arrows, no other missiles. They swam to the middle of the river, then I received a message that my general was dead. Then I saw carcasses and corpses floating downstream and a defeat message.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Stilgar CG]

@ Celt Centurion. Swimming takes quite some energy. I watched strong units comming out of water and a few seconds later they being routed bacause of the exhaustion (they routed back into water ). And after that they go to the bottom of the river ...

Swimming ability sounds good on paper, but the question is how to implement it well. After watching enemy armies die when having a swim, I do not use it myself.

I guess, if one really needs to attack enemy at a bridge he may still make use of swimming ability. You would obviously need range units, some units able to cross the bridge (e.g., helenic units), and it is good to be in numerical advantage. Engage the enemy on the bridge. After a while send a couple of units to have a swim and stub the enemy in the back. I guess, this may work well if you send 3-4 unit of light cavalry and the enemy is mostly infanantry. Light cavalry may be still tired, but they will still do some damage and get away with that. Sometimes, the water is shallow enough and crossig the river is just slow walk.

Then, I occasionally atack at bridges when I am in numerical advantage and have plenty of ranged units. Then I engage anemy at the bridge and let my ranged units (slingers are very good at that) waste the anemy units till they route. If enemy still have some reserves standing far enough, this may not work that well. So, sending a swimming unit or two as a bait for the enemy reserve to approach the river bank and fire at them may also be an idea.

I wonder if anyone had a positive experience with using the swimming ability? Or any tips.
I also wonder if there is any chance of making swimming a phisically less demanding experience by modding ?
ME

[Unknown Soldier]

Synthesis: Thats probably cos they are swimmers and your playing with Barbarian Invasion version of XGM. :hmmm:

Swimmers will not set foot on a bridge or ford, its really crap and if you have fatigue on they can drown real easy too!

I lost half an army(20 unit stack) of double silver chevron parthian horse archers this way

[Spartan Guard Itachi]

yeha ive encountered tis too, many units wont use bridge, disappointing when full enemy arym retrets and u cant cut them down.

[Unknown Soldier]

best option is to remove the swim attribute from all units in the EDU file, at least I think its there.

[synthesis]

I'm pretty sure the merc barbarians don't want to cross even with alex.exe.

[Scutarii]

As I said, their low-end infantry is badly armoured...