Arthurian Age Mod

[james924]

Hey Folks,
I've been working on a Mod for a couple days and I figured I'd announce it on the forums to get an idea of who would be interested and who would like to help out.
My Experience:
I've done quite a bit of modding in the past, but it has been a while so I've had to refresh myself with a few tutorials. I made a mod similar to this, but I didn't go to far into it because the Kingdoms expansion pack came out a few weeks later. Overall, I'm more than capable of seeing this through to the end.
I am a bit of a historical expert on this era (which is why I'd love to make a mod about it) and I have a huge collection of books covering it.
The Mod:
"The Arthurian Age" will not be based on Arthur (although we might include him). The Arthurian Age is based mainly around the year 480 AD, 70 years after the Romans left the Island. The native British people are fighting for their lives against an invasion of Saxons, Jutes and Angles from the East, Picts from the north and Irish Raids from the west.
We'll be basing a lot of the mod on the writings of Bede, Nennius and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.
MAP:
This will be a simple modification of the M2TW: Kingdoms Brittania map.
PROGRESS:
I've pretty much completed the map tga file. Suprisingly, the regions in Brittania Campaign are very similar to the historic regions of 5th Century Britain. There are points where choosing a boundary or border line were hindered by disagreement between historical sources. In these cases I've used Bernard Cornwell's very well researched novel "The Winter King" which is a fantastic historical fiction account of the post-roman Britain issue and a must read for anyone who has any interest in the region. But I digress...
I've changed the names MOST of the regions and cities but still need historically accurate names for the Northern regions.
I've narrowed down the faction list but I won't show it yet as there are a few things I'd like opinions on, such as: Should Saxons and Angles be two seperate factions, Should Dyfed and Gwynedd be covered by "the rebels."etc etc. So I'd like to see if anyone is interested in hopping onboard as a team or at least a discussion group before I post an actual Faction List.
Units wont be a problem because 90% of this age's units were spearmen.
As I said, We'll be basing a lot of the mod on the writings of Bede, Nennius and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, so a lot of the "work/decision making" is covered by that.
HELP NEEDED:
The areas where I could use help are:
-HISTORICAL EVENTS: We need people to come up with interesting historical events to post during the game.
These are the Dark Ages so this will require historical digging.
-FAN FLARE Sig pictures are fun!
-PLACE NAMES: There are several areas of the map that have little recorded history during this period. We need historical references on which to base the names of Provinces and ESPECIALLY cities/castles. Particularly north of the Antonine wall, and in Ireland. 5th Century place names are hard to find in those areas, as the Romans never touched them.
-TEXTURES: I could certainly read a tutorial and do it alone, but if anyone wants to participate, you're more than welcome to.
Anyone who is good at tweaking, swapping or even creating unit textures would be appreciated. If not, no big deal, because most of the units of this period can be found by simply tweaking the units already in game.
-Culture: The only big deal I see in culture is Renaming the already present cultures in Brittania Campaign.
-Scripts: Once again, I could simply read a tutorial, but thats no fun! Any help would be welcome.

Let me know what you guys think, and we'll see about starting a thread, establishing a group and getting this project rolling.

[Balmung]

Edited for by request, but only just mind you.

[james924]

Their is another mod based on this era or near enough.
Perhaps you should join up with them. Their thread is in Mod Threads/WIP proposals. Its called Vacuus Lux Lucis, 2nd page

No, their mod covers Saxon England from 620AD +
It will also include the viking age, so its a Saxon/Viking mod.

Mine is Sub-Roman. 480AD i.e. The Island is still held by the brits: Romano-British, The Celtic Dumnonii, The Centralized State of Powys. The Saxon Invasion is just beginning in 480AD.

But thanks, now the first post for my mod will always say "somebody already did it."

The VLL mod is about Saxon England, not Britain.

[james924]

Edited for by request, but only just mind you.

Thanks

[Swagger]

Good luck with it...


it will cost alot of time...

[Black Fox]

IV been lookin fr a mod like this... read the book The Winter King (o u av read it) its got ber info on this era. warfare was mostly about sheild walls with the rare early cavary wearin scale mail used to break them from behind and leveys havin short bows used to harass the spear men. Also druids were very important durin this time.

[james924]

IV been lookin fr a mod like this... read the book The Winter King (o u av read it) its got ber info on this era. warfare was mostly about sheild walls with the rare early cavary wearin scale mail used to break them from behind and leveys havin short bows used to harass the spear men. Also druids were very important durin this time.

I've figured out how to re-implement the shield wal into the game, so that will definitely be there. You're right, it was mainly Leather, Chain, and Scale. One of the units I will include is the Armorican Cavalry and they will use Scale. Otherwise, I'll mainly be retexturing pre-existing units, mainly spearmen. Unless of course we get a lot of interest in the mod, in which case there could be more uniquely created units.
I did have another idea, though...
Gwent and Powys, unlike Dumnonia, had been heavily Romanized. I was thinking I might add an elite unit like "British Legionaries" to Powys, as we saw in RTW:BI.

BTW, have you read the whole series?

[green tea]

Units wont be a problem because 90% of this age's units were spearmen.

I like your idea. the time between 300 BC and 1000 is my favourite, and I am waiting for mods that cover this time. Just one thing about the spears: Historical accuracy is a fine thing, but you should also try to make each faction rooster unique, and give those people that will play the mod enough different units so that they can use different tactics in battle and don´t get bored too soon. And as far as I know used the saxons mostly the "sax", some shortsword. I have read other books (fiction, not history, or a mix like those from Rosemary Sutcliff), in which the traditions of the romans were still held high in those cultures that were romanized before the barbarians invaded the island. Of course they had no roman legions, but perhaps weapons and armour in the roman style, especially in the civilized nobility. And I know that the vikings (yes that is later), when they went to war, often used weapons that were in other times tools, like axes. I can just imagine that the saxons did it similar. And perhaps you know the film "King Arthur" with those sarmatian knights. Not that I earnestly suggest that you should include these, I just want to point out the possibility that some "roman" things remained in that period. Another author, Gilian Bradshaw (also fiction, like every story about arthur), develops in her stories the insight that arthurs strenght in battle came from his new fighting style, because he used in this books mainly cavalry to fight the saxons. I assume she wrote this in that way to explain that arthur and his companions were the first knights.

So, I hope I gave you enough input to motivate you not to stick too much too an eventually boring "historical reality" when you have the choice (but of course, it is your mod). After all, this was the beginning of the dark ages for britain, and we don´t know very much for sure.

Edit: OK, I wrote a long time, and since then, you have already answered sth. about the romanized culture- I did not see this when I began to write. Take my post as an answer to your posts before.

[Swagger]

why the hell did you open 2 threads ??

[james924]

why the hell did you open 2 threads ??

Swagger, are you talking about this one in the "wips, ideas..." section? I didn't think it was against the rules. Its not a full description, its just a link to this thread. Thats why the hell I opened the other one. Please calm down.

[james924]

I like your idea. the time between 300 BC and 1000 is my favourite, and I am waiting for mods that cover this time. Just one thing about the spears: Historical accuracy is a fine thing, but you should also try to make each faction rooster unique, and give those people that will play the mod enough different units so that they can use different tactics in battle and don´t get bored too soon. And as far as I know used the saxons mostly the "sax", some shortsword. I have read other books (fiction, not history, or a mix like those from Rosemary Sutcliff), in which the traditions of the romans were still held high in those cultures that were romanized before the barbarians invaded the island. Of course they had no roman legions, but perhaps weapons and armour in the roman style, especially in the civilized nobility. And I know that the vikings (yes that is later), when they went to war, often used weapons that were in other times tools, like axes. I can just imagine that the saxons did it similar. And perhaps you know the film "King Arthur" with those sarmatian knights. Not that I earnestly suggest that you should include these, I just want to point out the possibility that some "roman" things remained in that period. Another author, Gilian Bradshaw (also fiction, like every story about arthur), develops in her stories the insight that arthurs strenght in battle came from his new fighting style, because he used in this books mainly cavalry to fight the saxons. I assume she wrote this in that way to explain that arthur and his companions were the first knights.

So, I hope I gave you enough input to motivate you not to stick too much too an eventually boring "historical reality" when you have the choice (but of course, it is your mod). After all, this was the beginning of the dark ages for britain, and we don´t know very much for sure.

Edit: OK, I wrote a long time, and since then, you have already answered sth. about the romanized culture- I did not see this when I began to write. Take my post as an answer to your posts before.

Cool beans. I completely agree, and I'll try to mod in some unique units, but I only have basic skills with Texturing so it will probably be limited to finding textures I like in some units and swapping them over to others.

Also, thanks for citing the books. I'd heard the name Gilian Bradshaw, but I didnt know she did Arthurian books, I think I'll check those out on Amazon.com, as I love literature on the period.

[green tea]

Cool beans. I completely agree, and I'll try to mod in some unique units, but I only have basic skills with Texturing so it will probably be limited to finding textures I like in some units and swapping them over to others.

Also, thanks for citing the books. I'd heard the name Gilian Bradshaw, but I didnt know she did Arthurian books, I think I'll check those out on Amazon.com, as I love literature on the period.

Don´t expect too much from those books- they are for children, and of course end very sadly. But if that does not bother you:

Gillian Bradshaw

"Hawk of May"
"Kingdom of Summer"
In Winter´s Shadow"

Simon&Schuster, New York

[Black Fox]

i could help but my skills are very limted (only good at researching and text files which i can get to work) good idea but a hell of alot of work. also the winter king has a map of britian during this period may you should do someting similar. i keep meaning to read the rest of the seris but not really bothered. also DRUIDS how are u gonna add them??!!! they are not a fighting force but they can create "death posts" which no one but a druid would dare cross. ALSO what about NAKED FANATICS. these idiots where like beserkers as uv propaly read. they would be sick but hard to add i gess. O O n also the BLACK SHEILD IRISH in the book these were feared warriors.

[james924]

i could help but my skills are very limted (only good at researching and text files which i can get to work) good idea but a hell of alot of work. also the winter king has a map of britian during this period may you should do someting similar. i keep meaning to read the rest of the seris but not really bothered. also DRUIDS how are u gonna add them??!!! they are not a fighting force but they can create "death posts" which no one but a druid would dare cross. ALSO what about NAKED FANATICS. these idiots where like beserkers as uv propaly read. they would be sick but hard to add i gess. O O n also the BLACK SHEILD IRISH in the book these were feared warriors.

Since the black shield Irish are VERY unique, i was thinking about simply adding ONE army of them via a scripted event.
Also, I'm not sure why everyone thinks this is gonna be a ridiculously hard amount of work. As I said above, I've been modding for a while, just never uploaded anything to the public.

Honestly, if you'd like to help out with anything like creating a cool sig picture, coming up with "Historical Events" that pop up in game, or anything like that, it would be cool.
There are a few specific historical research things I need. If you're interested in helping out with that, let me know and I'll tell you what they are. But most importantly, READ THE OTHER 2 BOOKS! they are Awesome!

[born2dive67]

I like this and was thinking that to make it more intersting would be to try to incorporate some rpg'ing elements to it through scritpting, like DLV, but since this will be on a smaller scale the immersion with characters should be more amplified for it.

I say this just because like you pointed out unit variety will be lower so something else must take its place. could even go so far as clans and free city kind of stuff local barons and all that. hope my idea came across clear for ya lol

[james924]

I like this and was thinking that to make it more intersting would be to try to incorporate some rpg'ing elements to it through scritpting, like DLV, but since this will be on a smaller scale the immersion with characters should be more amplified for it.

I say this just because like you pointed out unit variety will be lower so something else must take its place. could even go so far as clans and free city kind of stuff local barons and all that. hope my idea came across clear for ya lol

Definitely sounds good, but I've never toyed with RP scripting. If you know anything about it, by all means you're welcome to help out, but so far there isn't a whole lot of interest in my mod (its only been 2 days) so its just me doing the modding right now. I've completed the map, revamped the place names and have skinned a few units, thats about it for now.

[Agraes]

Hi, you should check our BI mod - Arthurian Total War:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=107

We did - and are still working on an update - a massive work in terms of research and accuracy.

Bernard Cornwell's novels are very good ones, but not accurate at all. Druids, shield walls, bhaa...

Mapping is not the most difficult part in modding. I think you can get done a more detailed map than Britannia's one. One of the biggest deal will be modeling. And so you should co-operate with Vacuus Lux Lucis mod, even if the timeframe isn't the same some units would be very similar.

Edit:

So, I hope I gave you enough input to motivate you not to stick too much too an eventually boring "historical reality" when you have the choice (but of course, it is your mod). After all, this was the beginning of the dark ages for britain, and we don´t know very much for sure.

Erg... We do know, at least there is theories about how people in those ages did live and fight. Historical accuracy isn't boring, at least that's my opinion, and when you can aim for it it can only be better.

[james924]

Hi, you should check our BI mod - Arthurian Total War:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=107

We did - and are still working on an update - a massive work in terms of research and accuracy.

Bernard Cornwell's novels are very good ones, but not accurate at all. Druids, shield walls, bhaa...

Mapping is not the most difficult part in modding. I think you can get done a more detailed map than Britannia's one. One of the biggest deal will be modeling. And so you should co-operate with Vacuus Lux Lucis mod, even if the timeframe isn't the same some units would be very similar.

Well, I wont team up with Vacuus Lux Lucis because I'm not interested in making a Saxon Pre-Viking mod (although it looks very cool). I've studied the immediate post-roman period thoroughly and am interested in making a mod about that time period, thats why I'm doing this. I can do it by myself if I have to, I've already made a few new units and am still working as we speak.
Also, I will NOT base the mod on Bernard Cornwell. Never said I would. There wont be a druid unit (although I might implement a druid attached to some units, like the flag holder in the Urban Cohorts in RTW), but there WILL be shield walls as they were fairly common.
I have several books here on my desk:
-Osprey Publishing's "Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars" By David Nicolle
-"The Anglo-Saxons" By Geoffrey Hindley
-"An Age of Tyrants: Britain and the Britains" By Christopher Snyder
-"Roman Britain & Early England" By Peter Blair
-"Age of the Picts" by W A Cummins
-"The Roman Emire Divided"
As well as Loeb's and Pengui's editions of:
-Bede
-Nennius
-Gildas
-The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle
I will use these as my sources. I only intend to use "Winter King" as a tie breaker in instances where there are SMALL geneological and geographical contradictions between the above sources.
But thanks for the advise.

BTW, I looked at your mod and its awesome. Now I have to reinstall Rome TW so I can try it.

[Mr Mac]

Hey James, I definitely like your idea, but I don't think you, or anyone else could do it all by yourself. Try talking to the Arthurian: Total War guys, maybe they'd be interested in porting their mod over to the Medieval 2 or even the Empire: Total War engine.

I'd be very eager to see you all collaborate.

Btw, where did you find the artwork to your sig on the very last slide before the presentation starts over? I like it.

regards.

[Constantius]

Did this not get off the ground ? What a shame ,it would off been hard to descide who to play tho