First thanks to all the modders for such a great mod – and to the mini-modders for the variants in it. Most of it as A+ stuff and I salute you all for all your hard work, research and creativity.
There are a few things that seem not quite historical and affect game balance that I’d like to make suggestions on though.
Historically these were very strong on flat ground against enemy to their front. When Romans first saw phalanx charges (in the war against Pyrrhos and then later against the Macedonians) they were shocked and frightened.
However a phalanx or hoplites hit in the flank or rear when already fighting enemy to their front tended to be unable to turn anyone to face the threat (partly because of the length of their spears or pikes and partly due to their organisation and training) and would be beaten.
High morale sword armed infantry like Roman legionaries (e.g vs the Macedonians at Cynoscephali) and Galatians (against the Greeks) seem to have been able to eventually break up and beat hoplites and phalangites even when fighting them to the front.
RTR phalangites and hoplites (like vanilla RTW ones) seem to have not much of a charge bonus but are capable of fighting enemy attacking from all sides at once.
Suggestions – 1) Give phalangites (but not hoplites) increased charge bonuses
2) Make phalangites frighten enemy infantry (except other phalangites) when they charge them
3) Double charge bonuses for units charging phalanxes or hoplites in the flank or rear and give phalanxes and hoplites bigger
4) Give sword armed infantry units (legionaries , gallic swordsmen etc) a bonus against phalangites or hoplites as they could cut through pike/spear shafts and use their less rigid formation to disorder phalangites.
Exactly what the hypaspist units used by Alexander and his successors were is uncertain. We know they were elite units but historians disagree on their role and equipment due to the lack of much solid evidence.
One guess is that they could fight as peltasts (skirmishers), hoplites or phalangites as they need arose with their sarissa (pikes) kept with the baggage train when the army was on the march.
In RTR hypaspists seem to be not merely elite but some kind of demi-gods – swordsmen who can massacre enemy heavy cavalry lancers even when charged by them on all sides on flat ground. This is not really in keeping with a Realism mod and whats more the computer sensibly hires as many of these demi-gods as it can to replace mere mortals in its armies.
Suggestions – 1) Allow hypaspists to be deployed as either peltasts or phalangites – or let them switch between phalanx, normal and skirmish formations. (possibly have different install options for other ideas of what hypaspists were like too)
2) Reduce their ratings to more human and less divine ones to make them more realistic
Elephants and Missile fire
Historically elephants were good for frightening enemy units (especially troops who hadn’t fought or seen elephants before and cavalry whose horses would panic if they weren’t used to them). They were vulnerable to being panicked by enemy javelin or missile fire which would often make them run amok doing more damage to their own side than the enemy. Historically generals protected their elephants by giving them towers with archers and pikemen on their backs , or javelinmen and slingers to run beside or in front of them and keep enemy missile troops away.
The most famous example of elephants being defeated by javelinmen was at Zama when Scipio’s velites turned back or killed all Hannibal’s elephants (though Hannibal’s elephants had just been captured and may have been half-trained – and some of the mahouts may have been green levies like much two-thirds of Hannibal’s army at Zama while Scipio’s were veterans of the Spanish campaign).
In RTR and ExRM most javelinmen and archers seem to have lost their bonuses against elephants and chariots (whether this is deliberate or an accident I don’t know). Also war elephants on their own seem to be able to defeat javelin armed skirmishers using just the handful of archers in their towers – and even to outrun and skirmish against them, staying out of javelin range but in bow range.
Suggestions – 1) Restore javelinmens’ and archers’ bonuses against elephants
2) Reduce elephants’ speed so they’re faster than infantry but slower than cavalry
3) Reduce the effectiveness of war elephants’ archers
Defence Ratings (for all but especially cavalry)
One of the results of arbitrary defence ratings is that generals’ cavalry bodyguards have massive defence ratings even against archery in both RTW and RTR.
In reality, while cavalry could run down missile troops who were in skirmish formation and had no other infantry defending them it was very different if the missile troops were in close order or defended by other infantry. Horses make a big target and are easily panicked by being hit by missiles (as was to be shown on a much larger scale much later in the Hundred Years War).
Ancient cavalry were good at some things – riding down skirmishers on open ground, charging infantry who were already fighting enemy infantry to their front in the flank or rear – and – if armed with javelins (as even many ‘heavy’ cavalry were) – skirmishing. They weren’t used much for charging enemy close formation infantry from the front though (exceptions would be e.g Parthian cataphracts and then only when horse-archers and lack of water had softened enemy infantry up).
Suggestions :
1) Reduce arbitrary defence bonuses for skill/dodge. Try to make most bonuses down to equipment for all troop types.
2) Reduce defence ratings for cavalry most of all.
3) Give many ancient cavalry (other than Hellenistic and nomad ones) javelins rather than lances and a skirmish ability they can use against enemy heavy infantry
Technology for ‘barbarian races’
Rome Total War made some assumptions about ancient technology and civilisation.
First it assumed they were so backward they could only build wooden walls. This is inaccurate. As many excavations have shown there were stone-faced , earth filled wars on many Gallic towns at the time of Julius Caesar’s invasion (see e.g Peter Connolly’s books).
Second it assumed that barbarians had reached the highest level of advances in technology, government and civilisation before the Romans conquered them – and that the Romans were the great technological innovators. In fact most civilisations – ‘barbarian’ or otherwise – advanced over time. Some Thracians became Dacians – far more organised in their form of government than a few hundred years before. The Romans also adopted much of their ‘innovative’ technology from other cultures – chainmail from the Celts, artillery and siege techniques from the Greeks for instance and later many different types of cavalry from the Sarmatians and Huns.
Third it assumes one culture can’t adopt or copy technology and troop types from others. In fact they did all the time. The Romans copied Celts and Greeks; Hannibal (Carthaginian), Mithridates (Pontic) and Antiochus (Seleucid) as well as various Numidian kings copied the Roman legionaries’ organisation and equipment with their own ‘mock’ legionaries. The Romans even trained some of their Numidian allies’ troops.
Suggestions :
1) Allow Celts and similar stone walls and some other upgrades they can’t currently get
2) Allow ‘mock’ legionaries and phalangites (or even any troops type) to kingdoms who have fought (or have borders with) kingdoms that have those troop types
3) Allow sharing technology in diplomacy
4) Allow characters a training ability
5) Allow them to train allies’ troops
Suggestions for RTRVII and RTW in general
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Originally Posted by Dunadd
