Blacksmith, Foundry, what gives?

[Lucius Tiberius Vorenus]

I'm playing as Rome, captured Syracuse, built up to a Foundry, and it's not giving any weapons or armor increases.

I'm sure it's something to do with having iron as a resource, or iron being imported through trade...

Of all the blacksmith' I've constructed thus far, only ONE city can upgrade weapons and armor. Am I to understand that I'll have to refit every Legion at this one city? Granted I understand as my borders expand I'll capture other settlements that have iron as a resource... just seems odd I can create blacksmith-foundry in every city, yet they do NOTHING... ??

Am I missing something?

I'm tempted to go into the descr_buildings file and deleting "requires resource iron". Sure I understand the trade/resource implications gamewise, just seems kind of unrealistic that i can only have ONE functioning blacksmith(that actually does upgrades) out of the 20 cities I currently own.

[Mjr Phil]

That's right. Only regions that have iron as a resource are useful. All others are just money eaters. If in building description it says that it upgrades weapons (or armor) then you know it will work. Otherwise don't bother. The same goes for weapon upgrading temples, e.g. Vulcan.

In Gaul you'll find it plenty. I just stared war with them, captured 3 regions and at least two have iron. Not sure about 3rd.

[Lucius Tiberius Vorenus]

Hmm, I find this pretty unrealitic.

Surely Rome Imported the best resources from the ends of the earth to equip and outfit their Pratorean guards, Legions, ships, ect ect....

Will I break anything if I go into the export_descr_buildings file and delete "requires resouce iron" lines for all "smith" works? I'm thinking it might work, but dont know for sure since apparently it's tied into some temples. Is there a "requires resource iron" line for constructing Temples of Vulcan?

Are the Temples of Vulcan(Forge) linked to the Blacksmith upgrades? or do they act independently?

Ex:

1. City "X" has resource Iron, and a level 3 Temple of Vulcan(but no blacksmith in city "X"), thus giving +__Armor and +__Weapon.

2. City "Y" has resource Iron, and a Foundry(but no Temple of Vulcan in city "Y"), thus giving +__Armor and +__ Weapon

What's strange is I captured the city of Segesta, which has NO mines, yet I get the basic weapons and armor upgrades via my blacksmith. Iron IS a trade IMPORT though in this city. So the "requires resource iron" isn't exactly dependent on having an Iron Mine in the same region as your city with blacksmith.. ?? I'm confused...

Edit:

I deleted the "requires resource iron" lines from the smith_works files, seems to be working.

I'm not wanting easy mode mod, I play with pretty strict "house rules" I've read from various RTW mods, to keep the game challanging and realistic, I'm just pretty wrapped around the axle on this iron requirement, which in my opinion leans a bit away from realism due to game mechanics. I don't really feel having to march an entire legion several hundred kilometers just to upgrade weaps/armor seems realistic.

[Squid]

Hmm, I find this pretty unrealitic.

Surely Rome Imported the best resources from the ends of the earth to equip and outfit their Pratorean guards, Legions, ships, ect ect....

Will I break anything if I go into the export_descr_buildings file and delete "requires resouce iron" lines for all "smith" works? I'm thinking it might work, but dont know for sure since apparently it's tied into some temples. Is there a "requires resource iron" line for constructing Temples of Vulcan?

Are the Temples of Vulcan(Forge) linked to the Blacksmith upgrades? or do they act independently?

Ex:

1. City "X" has resource Iron, and a level 3 Temple of Vulcan(but no blacksmith in city "X"), thus giving +__Armor and +__Weapon.

2. City "Y" has resource Iron, and a Foundry(but no Temple of Vulcan in city "Y"), thus giving +__Armor and +__ Weapon

What's strange is I captured the city of Segesta, which has NO mines, yet I get the basic weapons and armor upgrades via my blacksmith. Iron IS a trade IMPORT though in this city. So the "requires resource iron" isn't exactly dependent on having an Iron Mine in the same region as your city with blacksmith.. ?? I'm confused...

Edit:

I deleted the "requires resource iron" lines from the smith_works files, seems to be working.

I'm not wanting easy mode mod, I play with pretty strict "house rules" I've read from various RTW mods, to keep the game challanging and realistic, I'm just pretty wrapped around the axle on this iron requirement, which in my opinion leans a bit away from realism due to game mechanics. I don't really feel having to march an entire legion several hundred kilometers just to upgrade weaps/armor seems realistic.

First perhaps you should have read, and posted in any of the other threads that talk about this issue instead of opening yet another discussion.

Second Rome didn't import the best to outfit their legions (there most certainly wouldn't have been enough "best" iron for that to possible), they imported the cheapest, as that was what would be able to meet the needs of their army and not bankrupt themselves doing it. Heck look at any modern army, you think the weapons modern armies use are the best ones, no they are almost always the cheapest one that meet the minimal requirement needed.

Third, the bonuses between the temple and the smith trees are independent and not linked at all.

Fourth, the game engine does not allow us to test for trade imports, so regardless of if iron is imported into a region or not (and technically iron would have been imported into every region or you couldn't recruit units in regions without iron), we can only check if iron is a native resource to the region.

Fifth, if you want strict realism, then don't build any smith buildings at all as it is historically verifyable that the vast majority of weapons were all of similar calibur, and certainly no improvement of type the game offers would have existed. Those few weapons that were made that would have been of a superior calibur would only have been used by the nobility and certainly not used to equip the armies of the time.

[Flippy]

I'm playing as perg, and the only iron I've found is on Crete

[Lucius Tiberius Vorenus]

First perhaps you should have read, and posted in any of the other threads that talk about this issue instead of opening yet another discussion.

.

I did 3 different searches before resorting to starting this thread.....

Before you go full auto you should verify target ID to ensure you're not firing on civilians....

I dunno, "Sticky" thread on the main blacksmith discussion perhaps? Or a sticky thread with the "most discussed issues" linked and updated in the main thread....

[Source]

I did 3 different searches before resorting to starting this thread.....

Before you go full auto you should verify target ID to ensure you're not firing on civilians....

I dunno, "Sticky" thread on the main blacksmith discussion perhaps? Or a sticky thread with the "most discussed issues" linked and updated in the main thread....

Vorenus, I started a thread on this some time back. A couple of months back. This is the link.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=150414

[Squid]

What's strange is I captured the city of Segesta, which has NO mines, yet I get the basic weapons and armor upgrades via my blacksmith. Iron IS a trade IMPORT though in this city. So the "requires resource iron" isn't exactly dependent on having an Iron Mine in the same region as your city with blacksmith.. ?? I'm confused...

Forgot to comment on this one, mines have nothing to do with iron (or copper or tin), they are linked to gold and silver only, and the bonuses they confer are hardcoded to be linked with gold and silver only, so you will never see a mine in a region that doesn't have either gold or silver.

[Coldcall]

Lucius,

It is a pain that Sicily cannot build a workable foundry. Personally i dont mind the problem on other parts of the map and i think Arretium (central), Segestica (east) and Massilia (west) are well placed if playing Rome.

But the lack of a southern foundry is a problem because it makes Sicily and southern Italy a poor staging area for assaults on Carthage and northern africa. It means the player is far more likely to go north, east or west during expansion. Because of this i usually dont bother with North Africa until later in the game when Athens and Corinth are captured and have foundries.

Personally I think this needs to be tweaked. Just one iron resource in Sicily would do the trick.

Sicily was a great centre during ancient times so not being able to upgrade armour there is actually highly unrealistic.

[Coldcall]

One more reason why its a big pain:

Units seem to degrade their armour from foundry level back to armourer level when you consolidate them into new cohorts. This seems to happen randomly, so if you join two half cohorts who have the foundy level armour there is some chance they will lose their foundry armour and revert back to armourer level.

In other words they need to be upgraded again in a foundry. This makes no sense.

[Sandrus Castus]

Yes, as if iron wasn't transported in the Roman Empire.

[Nellup]

There was a large (and still ongoing) debate on the dev forums about this, rest assured that for RS2 complaints such as this will be a thing of the past, a much better system is being worked on.

[Gotthard]

I'm not sure the debate is done *yet*, but it's definitely being worked on. Regardless of the next incarnation this takes, it won't be as simple as 'requires iron' I can promise you that. We're looking at trying to make some resources strategically valuable, and this was a first try.

You have to admit, it IS nice when you get an iron city and can upgrade your troops armor, right?

[Squid]

If we stickied every most discussed issue (which in and of itself would be a most discussed issue) there'd be no room for other threads. As for a search, a simple search of smith iron in the rs forum, revealed not only your thread, but two others that discuss the issue, as well as three bug threads where the issue was also discussed, in only 12 results returned. I fail to see why we should not expect people to put in a slight amount of effort before posting, so ease off on the sarcasm.

[Coldcall]

Good to hear that the armour upgrade criteria will change for RS 2.0.

I hope they still keep some sort of restrictions on upgrading but tweaking its availability will be a big improvement. I will no more :-)

[Lucius Tiberius Vorenus]

Very true. I've just deleted the requires resource iron lines in the export_descr_buildings file, but I've made up some "house rules" for myself to keep it from getting out of control.

Until Marian reforms, I'm only allowing my Emporers Legion to get the full lvl 3 upgrades. My faction heir's Legion can get the lvl 2, all others can get the lvl 1 upgrade(not that all have them yet). I still only have Pricippes/Triarii/hastati. I intend on doing the same when I get the republican legions.

I suppose when the reforms hit, I'll only allow my auxillia to get the lvl 1 upgrades, cohorts lvl 2, and only allow certain named to get the full upgrades.

[lesterthenerd]

nice. all u had to do is delete require iron. cant wait to try that out. bloody annoying... how u cant upgrade in every region.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I really don't know why people bother with that. Smiths are such to represent a high quality blacksmith using high quality ore, when in abundance. I don't know if RS has an abundance of iron in all the verifiable historical places, but there was a long tradition of high quality smiths and metal in Iberia, and these were frequently sold to several other regions and used by Iberian mercenaries, but still being very rare. A smith represents, in-game, the expertise required to turn a raw material into a valuable weapon, but without the adequate raw material, I fail to see how that would work. That said, it does not prevent the average legionary or hoplite to have his sword and spear, it only does not match with the quality of those found in other parts with plenty of high quality iron ore.

[ComesSiculorum]

"Creators", can you disable the blacksmith construction in regions where no iron, in the new upcomming patch ? This could be avoid the useless waste of time ( and money ), in game and in the forum, too.

[Squid]

Already being done, check the bugs/ctd thread where it lists all bugs/ctds that have been found and lists those that have been addressed already.