Bribery: a question to John Galt

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

Just something I've been thinking about whilst posting and reading the slavery thread.

If anyone can do what they want as long as they do not affect others' liberty, is bribery of authority figures perfectly normal in your objectivist society?

As the person bribing has worked hard for their wealth and they deserve to reap the rewards of their prosperity, could they, legally and without interference bribe someone? If we are all completely free this would logically happen.

Answer me this Mr Galt!

[bushbush]

where the Galt man?

[Daovonnaex]

Just something I've been thinking about whilst posting and reading the slavery thread.

If anyone can do what they want as long as they do not affect others' liberty, is bribery of authority figures perfectly normal in your objectivist society?

As the person bribing has worked hard for their wealth and they deserve to reap the rewards of their prosperity, could they, legally and without interference bribe someone? If we are all completely free this would logically happen.

Answer me this Mr Galt!

This depends on what you mean by "authority figure". If you're referring to civil servants, this would not be permissible in a minarchist polity, for the simple reason that bribery would then result in the civil servant doing something "un-libertarian". If you're talking about in business, then bribery would be legal. Bribery was actually legal in German business up until the '70s and is still legal in Japanese business (one of the best jobs in Japan is being a corporate purchasing agent).

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

by authority figures I mean political representatives (i assume that in Galt's 'utopia' we still have representative democracy) Police (he has already mentioned that these will still exist) and what about those who carry out the tests for his 'benevolent serfdom' programme? bribery can save those who would fail the test....

[Kiljan Arslan]

"unlibertarian" sounds like when the communist says that Stalin wasn't a communist.

[Daovonnaex]

except the "unlibertarian" persons aren't killed, deported, etc.

[Kiljan Arslan]

except the "unlibertarian" persons aren't killed, deported, etc.

No however to claim that because a government official accepted a bribe in a libertarian society that therefore its not libertarian is just like a Communist saying that Stalin was not an example of communism.

[ivan_the_terrible]

If anyone can do what they want as long as they do not affect others' liberty, is bribery of authority figures perfectly normal in your objectivist society?

As the person bribing has worked hard for their wealth and they deserve to reap the rewards of their prosperity, could they, legally and without interference bribe someone? If we are all completely free this would logically happen.

You mean as in, the act of bribery doesn't directly infringe on the rights of anyone, so it could theoretically be legal?

My argument would be that it does, in fact, infringe. Because it, at least in the case of government or basic services eg healthcare, limits the capacity of the person who hasn't bribed of getting the service they are entitled to.

I'm afraid legal bribery is a bit too anarchical for my liking.

[Daovonnaex]

You mean as in, the act of bribery doesn't directly infringe on the rights of anyone, so it could theoretically be legal?

My argument would be that it does, in fact, infringe. Because it, at least in the case of government or basic services eg healthcare, limits the capacity of the person who hasn't bribed of getting the service they are entitled to.

I'm afraid legal bribery is a bit too anarchical for my liking.

there is no government provided healthcare in a free society so that example is moot

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

"Legal" bribery.

This is called salary.

[Dunecat]

"Legal" bribery.

This is called salary.

You win so hard.

[Big War Bird]

Under US law it is legal for a US corporations and persons to bribe foreign officals under certain circumstances.

Brbes are ok so long as the briber does not ask the official to break any laws, but just to do his job.

For example, suppose a a US company has sent some goods for export to Mexico and is waiting forthe items to clear customs inspection. There is nothing wrong with the items (they are legal for import) but the customs inspector isn't doing his job and doesn't clear the items to leave the customs warehouse. It is perfectly acceptable under US law to for the exporting company to pay a bribe to the official to get off his ass and do his job.

So to the original poster yes, bribery to get people to do what they already should be doing should be legal and in fact in certain circumstances, already is.

[roy34543]

Is bribery ok for example, If you pay a store clerk to give you more items then allowed (For example with Wiis, Where your only allowed 3 per household) Would that be legal?

[Big War Bird]

Is bribery ok for example, If you pay a store clerk to give you more items then allowed (For example with Wiis, Where your only allowed 3 per household) Would that be legal?

Of course offering the clerk a bribe is ok. No one has a right to a Wii, its a consumer good that is for sale to the highest bidders.

That's not a question of legality, as Wiis are not rationed by law. It is a question of ethics. The ethics of the bribe is on the clerk. He has obligations to his employer. First he has the obligation to follow his employeer policies - in this case rationing Wiis. But he also might have the obligation to to inform his employeer that the policy is restricting earnings potential. Ultimately it is the retailers choice to sell Wii' as it sees fit, which presumably is to sell them in a way that maximizes long term revenues.

[roy34543]

But its a bribe that increases the advertised cost and denys the advertised policy. is it legal then?

[Big War Bird]

But its a bribe that increases the advertised cost and denys the advertised policy. is it legal then?

I would imagine in a world run by objectivism there would be no laws against false advertising, but would still be regulated by supply and demand. As for current law that would be a slightly different issue of which I am unsure, but certainly offering the bribe would not violate any law, though perhaps taking it on part of the clerk would, but I greatly doubt it. Again its up to retailer to set policy and that policy can be changed at any time.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Actually the clerk could be breaking his stores rules.

[Big War Bird]

Actually the clerk could be breaking his stores rules.

Rules, not laws. And as explained earlier, he may be obligated to break them.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Really break a stores rules? THat sounds like asking for a pink slip.

[Vladimir Lenin]

Just something I've been thinking about whilst posting and reading the slavery thread.

If anyone can do what they want as long as they do not affect others' liberty, is bribery of authority figures perfectly normal in your objectivist society?

As the person bribing has worked hard for their wealth and they deserve to reap the rewards of their prosperity, could they, legally and without interference bribe someone? If we are all completely free this would logically happen.

Answer me this Mr Galt!

Actually, this will of course suprise you but no.

You see, this Authority Figure, is dealing with the money of taxpayers or citizens, not his own money. His vote or influence controls their money. Read up on Locke's Social Contract. http://www.iep.utm.edu/s/soc-cont.htm