Hastati first line of infantry?

[Coldcall]

Is it just me or are Hastati rubbish at holding a line without getting slaughtered quickly?

I know the pre-Marian Romans used Hastati as a first line and I have a feeling they were more powerful than the way a line of Hastati is depicted in RTW/RS. Because i find that against any decent infantry they get ripped up pretty quickly. So in game, it actually makes no sense using Hastati as your first line.

Surely the idea of a frontline is to halt the enemy charge to a standstill, which then gives you time to manouvre around the enemy into their flanks or rear. With Hastati being the way they are it makes more sense to use a frontline of principes (who are decent at holding a line) and then using your Hastati as quick flanking units.

I suppose historically Hastati were not as flimsy as they appear in RTW-RS because it seems to me a poor tactical line up of making your weakest infantry bear the brunt of a Gaul onslaught.

[Caius Antonius]

I usually put them on the sides, behind the triarii, and then envelop them around the enemy army.

[Nellup]

I agree, I find hastati pretty useless, which is why I usually sacrifice historical accuracy and don't bother including them in my armies.

[Mjr Phil]

I find hastati pretty useless

I wouldn't go that far... After all they are heavy infantry that can throw pila. They can still be used for flanking, and it's actually hastati that save my ass defending underdeveloped town in Gaul. But surely I choose principies over hastati every time it's possible

[medival rome]

I agree, I find hastati pretty useless, which is why I usually sacrifice historical accuracy and don't bother including them in my armies.

i agree i never use hastati for some reason (ill even use town watch)
theyre a weak infantry which come to think about is weird as rome is a fully fledged infantry faction

PRINCIPES/LEGIONARY

[snuggans]

theyre a weak infantry which come to think about is weird as rome is a fully fledged infantry faction

would someone expect the same from a recently recruited private in the army when compared to someone in delta force or SAS? there will always exist a weak part of an army, weak only when compared to the rest of the army, but still rife with potential.

[medival rome]

true...i dont like the look on their armor for some reason either

[EternalSlayer]

The Hastatii were historically the youngest soldiers out on their first campaign. Therefore they would have little or no fighting experience.

[Father Jack]

Yeh but its also worth remembering that the Roman premarian army was nothing as good as the Post marian armies. Rome suffered huge casualties in battles take the battle of Cannae for example.

[Taelok]

I have to agree, though not useless (they absorb missiles pretty effectively ), they tend to get destroyed and rout (on hard) within the first 5 minutes. They certainly can't be expected to garrison towns.

It is accurate, I suppose, but it can be frustrating when you're legions suffer 40% losses in each battle. Principes are bang on the mark though.

[Sandrus Castus]

If you use them the good way, they aren't rubbish, but can be very useful. Using the traditional roman way of fighting (acies triplex), it should work... But remember to put your Hastati and (or if you don't, at least) your Principes on Fire at Will. Can make a big difference and it weakens the enemy charge.

[Coldcall]

Sandrus,

I dont think they are totally useless but as line holding unit they are'nt up to much. All my units are on fire at will, once the enemy gets close enough :-)

[Sandrus Castus]

Sandrus,

I dont think they are totally useless but as line holding unit they are'nt up to much. All my units are on fire at will, once the enemy gets close enough :-)

Hm, that's right. But they are intended to hold the first wave, not to be the heavy weight of the army. If you see your hastati are weakening, throw your Principes in the fight.

[mattfriend0]

i agreed with coldcall they are useless i dont use them at all there like the auxilia unhistroylicly weak they should have alot higher defends and attack

[century x]

Let them throw thier 2 pilas. Let them fight for 2 minutes. Then fall them back to the flanks.

[snuggans]

Let them throw thier 2 pilas. Let them fight for 2 minutes. Then fall them back to the flanks.

massive casualties, especially when you tell them turn around and run.

[century x]

massive casualties, especially when you tell them turn around and run.

Really. Well Before they fall back I have the principes push in to relieve them and then I tell them to fall back. Barely get any casualties.

[The10thLegion]

massive casualties, especially when you tell them turn around and run.

use a tactical withdraw and do what century x says

[Flippy]

I don't play as rome much, but i never have a problem with my hastati, they take the most punishment, mostly because i throw them in first, also they have a nice amount of pila damage on FAW mode, not a bad early unit

[Scipio praeditus]

As Century says, they should be used to absorb the charge and tire the enemy (after dumping their pila), be reinforced by principes, then retreat and outflank.

At least thats how it was done historically during republican times (most of the time at least), but to me the losses suffered when disengaging are simply inacceptable (with al infantry), luckily they serve perfectly as second rank / flankers.