Absolute ad

[danzig]

Ok first off this is more amusement then outrage but there is a troubling aspect to it. If you are gonna turn this into some rabid "they took our jobs" nonsense or equally dumb that every person has the right to enter the US because they want to...please take it to some other thread. The point of the thread is corporate irresponsibility that thru its actions can actually help inflame tension.

Ok disclaimer done. Absolute decided to run a little ad campaign the theme of the add is about visionary ideals, of seeking to change things in the world for the better etc. Here is a sample http://www.absolut.com/iaaw all well and good except for the one running in Mexico



The troubling part is the companies response to the ad and its justification:

The In An Absolut World advertising campaign invites consumers to visualize a world that appeals to them — one they feel may be more idealized or one that may be a bit “fantastic.” As such, the campaign will elicit varying opinions and points of view. We have a variety of executions running in countries worldwide, and each is germane to that country and that population.

This particular ad, which ran in Mexico, was based upon historical perspectives and was created with a Mexican sensibility. In no way was this meant to offend or disparage, nor does it advocate an altering of borders, nor does it lend support to any anti-American sentiment, nor does it reflect immigration issues. Instead, it hearkens to a time which the population of Mexico may feel was more ideal.

As a global company, we recognize that people in different parts of the world may lend different perspectives or interpret our ads in a different way than was intended in that market. Obviously, this ad was run in Mexico, and not the US — that ad might have been very different.

The highlighted part is the troubling part. So does this mean and ad catering towards racist, religious or whatever views would be ok since it would be appealing to a certain sensibility? Someone photo shopped the above ad and changed it into a giant fence around mexico...how well would that ad campaign work in the US appealing to American "sensibility"?

How about a middle eastern campaign that shows no Israel on the map? Or how about one that shows Israel made up of the land of Palestinians? How about a European campaign that shows Europe under a Nazi flag to cater to right wing nutjobs in Europe? Or to use a current example how about an ad catering to Tibet sensibilities that shows it as a separate country from China?

The reasoning (or rather defense) about the ad is quite frankly idiotic and atleast mildly offensive that some company thinks carving up someone elses country to appeal to some group and inflaming the distrust between (dumb) radicals on both sides of the border was a good idea.

As there are mexicans who actually believe in this reconquista nonsense and there are of course americans who actually think it is a threat. Given the tension of immigration in the US running such an ad is a complete brain dead move. I suppose its good they applied this way of thinking to US and not say the middle east or china since the only reaction you get here is bloggers ranting and raving and no one gets blown up over it

[Kiljan Arslan]

Wheres the company located? I need to send them a package in the mail.

[El Brujo]

I suppose its good they applied this way of thinking to US and not say the middle east or china since the only reaction you get here is bloggers ranting and raving and no one gets blown up over it

Until we get a little vodka in us, of course.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Hmm anything say we can't ban the sale of their vodka in the United States?

[danzig]

Hmm anything say we can't ban the sale of their vodka in the United States?

Er why? Over an ad? That is a bit excessive As I said the ad itself is less the issue compared to their reasoning.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Yes. Plus the fact that they feel they didn't do anything wrong.

[ZaPPPa]

I see your point but:

How about a middle eastern campaign that shows no Israel on the map? Or how about one that shows Israel made up of the land of Palestinians? ... Or to use a current example how about an ad catering to Tibet sensibilities that shows it as a separate country from China?

To be honest these are ongoing conflicts and therefore have a lot more emotional attachments.

How about a European campaign that shows Europe under a Nazi flag to cater to right wing nutjobs in Europe?

WWII (especially the holocaust) and the American-Mexican war are also not comparable.

Considering America touts its constitution and 'freedom' whenever they can, I'm disappointed some people get upset about this. This is a perfect opportunity for people to take the high road. Just laugh about it and move on. Empty threats about 'sending a package' are childish and frankly against everything the U.S. claims to stand for.

Besides, everyone knows the only way to divide the U.S. is this way :

[danzig]

To be honest these are ongoing conflicts and therefore have a lot more emotional attachments.

Dunno immigration is pretty emotional topic here but it is amoung specific segments of the population. Look at some of the Youtube videos of mexican nationalist protesting right next to anti immigration people and it becomes extremely heated.

WWII (especially the holocaust) and the American-Mexican war are also not comparable.

Oh of course I just hilighted the justification used to defend the ad can easily be used in some of the other examples I hilighted if one is going to cater ads to the political sensibility of the target audience.

Considering America touts its constitution and 'freedom' whenever they can, I'm disappointed some people get upset about this. This is a perfect opportunity for people to take the high road. Just laugh about it and move on. Empty threats about 'sending a package' are childish and frankly against everything the U.S. claims to stand for.

Exactly I said as much, the ad isnt what concerns me but the justification. The ad is itself is laughable and any mexican who buys into the reconquestia nonsense is an idiot. However there ARE going to be people upset by it mainly because a) there ARE Mexicans who think southwest american belongs to them and b) there are Americans who think mexicans want this...they are fringe elements of course but these are the types more prone to violence. So my stance is its pretty idiotic for any company to insert itself into any type of political viewpoint like this and I cant phantom how some executive thought it was a good idea to even try. Whether its this, middle east, china/tibet, china/taiwan what have you...companies playing upon those issues to try and appeal to a segment of the population is pretty dumb.

[ZaPPPa]

So my stance is its pretty idiotic for any company to insert itself into any type of political viewpoint like this and I cant phantom how some executive thought it was a good idea to even try.

Actually it is a pretty good business decision. It generates a tremendous amount of free publicity. A few months from now this stunt is going to be forgotten, but people will forever recognize the brand name. Marketing is careful manipulation of the minds of people. The long term reward outweighs the short term damage.

Wouldn't the high road in this case be not throwing someone in jail or forcibly denying markets to absolut? Complaining is perfectly american.

The high road would be simply to argue that the U.S. values freedom of expression highly, but to warn ad agencies not to wander too far beyond the line of acceptability and decency.

[danzig]

Actually it is a pretty good business decision. It generates a tremendous amount of free publicity. A few months from now this stunt is going to be forgotten, but people will forever recognize the brand name. Marketing is careful manipulation of the minds of people. The long term reward outweighs the short term damage.

Its good business exploiting ethnic/cultural conflict inflaming the situation among people who are overly sensitive? To me it would be similiar to the mohmmed cartoon (though obviously a much much less scale) where sure someone has the right to do it but the question on whether should they never seems to occur to the person/group etc doing it. Also there is the hypocritical nature of it, if a US version had the same map but with minefields or a wall diving the two countries it would instantly be deemed racist. As stated above Absolut must be doing insane business in Mexico because this is certainly going to alienate them in the US

The high road would be simply to argue that the U.S. values freedom of expression highly, but to warn ad agencies not to wander too far beyond the line of acceptability and decency.

Well to be fair the only people getting upset about this are various right wing blogs etc where the whole story developed but even that I dont see any reason why they shouldnt complain if they dont like it. They arent calling upon the death of anyone or rioting just pissed off about it so imo they are on the "high road".

[El Brujo]

this is certainly going to alienate them in the US

Except the parts that are full of Mexican immigrants, like Aztlan the Southwest.

[ZaPPPa]

Also there is the hypocritical nature of it, if a US version had the same map but with minefields or a wall diving the two countries it would instantly be deemed racist.

But that would be because the wall/minefield strikes at the current issue of illegal immigration, not the issue of a conflict that was resolved over 150 years ago. It's not the same.

They arent calling upon the death of anyone or rioting just pissed off about it so imo they are on the "high road".

So far the matter has been handled fine. The usual suspects go berserk, the dumb masses vow never to drink Absolut, which they won't anyway, because between Bud and ehm... Bud.. that's all they drink anyway.
The typical student Absolut drinkers will laugh at the boldness of this stunt and have another one.

Hurray for free speech!

[JP226]

Considering America touts its constitution and 'freedom' whenever they can, I'm disappointed some people get upset about this. This is a perfect opportunity for people to take the high road. Just laugh about it and move on. Empty threats about 'sending a package' are childish and frankly against everything the U.S. claims to stand for.

Wouldn't the high road in this case be not throwing someone in jail or forcibly denying markets to absolut? Complaining is perfectly american.

[JP226]

The high road would be simply to argue that the U.S. values freedom of expression highly, but to warn ad agencies not to wander too far beyond the line of acceptability and decency.

Isn't there a line in free society given that it is ultimately free all around? For example I have the freedom to say and do whatever I want, within reason (can't kill anyone), but they also have the freedom to not listen or say whatever they want against me. Which might limit whatever i want. Because of freedom there is essentially a limit.

[ZaPPPa]

Personally I believe that, for example, direct threats and inciting hatred are acceptable exceptions to freedom of speech. Absolute freedom of speech is limiting to a civilization. Inciting hatred by one group towards another group within a nation never leads to good things. Obviously there's always the 'is it smart to say something' argument. I once told my boss he was incompetent and a liar. Was it legal to say that? Yes.. Was it smart.. no, not really.

What 'Absolut' did is, in my opinion, acceptable. Threatening to act on it (by Absolut) is even acceptable, because they are in no position to actually execute that threat. Now, if they would threaten to kill every American that sets foot in their Mexican facilities, that, obviously, is overstepping the boundary.

[Aristophanes]

Personally I believe that, for example, direct threats and inciting hatred are acceptable exceptions to freedom of speech. Absolute freedom of speech is limiting to a civilization. Inciting hatred by one group towards another group within a nation never leads to good things. Obviously there's always the 'is it smart to say something' argument. I once told my boss he was incompetent and a liar. Was it legal to say that? Yes.. Was it smart.. no, not really.

What 'Absolut' did is, in my opinion, acceptable. Threatening to act on it (by Absolut) is even acceptable, because they are in no position to actually execute that threat. Now, if they would threaten to kill every American that sets foot in their Mexican facilities, that, obviously, is overstepping the boundary.

Pretty much. I don't think any measures either need to be or should be taken against Absolut. This has to be one of the most stupid marketing mistakes ever made, unless I'm wrong and Mexico is a more lucrative market for Absolut's product than I would expect.

[RZZZA]

Its actually Absolut vodka, not absolute. Minor nitpickery now on to the seriously offensive stuff....


Mexicans who fantasize about taking back the western united states make me laugh. A person in the article claims that Americans might be offended by this ad because they don't know the HISTORY. I know the history. Mexico was a broken nation and could not govern or defend their northern territories.

so we took their land. Its the same thing that happened to Spain when they owned Florida. They could no longer govern or protect Florida, so we took it. Granted, the mexican american war was not our proudest moment, it was american imperialism and militarism at it's finest. But Mexicans can barely even govern their own country now and theyre fantasizing about taking back the western united states? hah!

[danzig]

Its actually Absolut vodka, not absolute. Minor nitpickery now on to the seriously offensive stuff....


Mexicans who fantasize about taking back the western united states make me laugh. A person in the article claims that Americans might be offended by this ad because they don't know the HISTORY. I know the history. Mexico was a broken nation and could not govern or defend their northern territories.

so we took their land. Its the same thing that happened to Spain when they owned Florida. They could no longer govern or protect Florida, so we took it. Granted, the mexican american war was not our proudest moment, it was american imperialism and militarism at it's finest. But Mexicans can barely even govern their own country now and theyre fantasizing about taking back the western united states? hah!

I always like how people who have blood as diluted and mixed as any in american will stand there ranting and raving about their historical right to the land bashing American/European/English imperialism. Only thing more funny then a white guy telling a mexican who is actually an american citizen to go back to their "own" country is a mexican telling white people they should go back to Europe and do so while speaking spanish. You'll have people like Ward Churchill pushing higher aim of returning all of north america (btw this includes you Canadians too) to 'his people' of course despite the fact Churchill has less american indian blood in him then I do. So have the people who support this stuff are pretty much clueless.

[El Brujo]

I always like how people who have blood as diluted and mixed as any in american will stand there ranting and raving about their historical right to the land bashing American/European/English imperialism. Only thing more funny then a white guy telling a mexican who is actually an american citizen to go back to their "own" country is a mexican telling white people they should go back to Europe and do so while speaking spanish. You'll have people like Ward Churchill pushing higher aim of returning all of north america (btw this includes you Canadians too) to 'his people' of course despite the fact Churchill has less american indian blood in him then I do. So have the people who support this stuff are pretty much clueless.

With the people you're talking about it's really more about culture than blood. The historian T.R. Fehrenbach, who wrote several histories of the Southwest, noted that "Americans had more in common culturally with Japan than with their neighbor to the south".

[danzig]

With the people you're talking about it's really more about culture than blood. The historian T.R. Fehrenbach, who wrote several histories of the Southwest, noted that "Americans had more in common culturally with Japan than with their neighbor to the south".

Yes but the people who support this nonsense makes very little distinction. Of course now "Mexican" culture be that as it were has pretty much had key aspects of it absorbed into the US...its probably a key in what prevents this from actually becoming a problem. American culture is like the Borg