Former militant leader: The Palestinian people is finished

[HorseArcher]

JENIN - "When you see Zakariya, maybe you'll be surprised, but he looks like just any other Palestinian man now. Without armed men, without a weapon, just an ordinary guy," related an acquaintance of Zakariya Zubeidi, until not long ago the commander of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in Jenin.

Though Zubeidi is no longer hiding from the Israel Defense Forces, for a number of hours the people at the theater where he works tried to find him. Zubeidi didn't answer his mobile phone even when the commander of the Palestinian security forces in Jenin, Suleiman Umran, called him. In the end, a woman who works at the theater explained that he usually sleeps late and maybe that's what he was doing.

more here

[mrmouth]

Actually a very telling article that delves into a controversial subject, was Arafat still directing terror operations against Israel during the Oslo accords.

A senior US diplomat named Ross was the man behind the scenes for the US directing the negotiations for Clinton, and Israeli intelligence, and the CIA, had both told him there was no doubt that Arafat was still directing terror attacks.

At the time there were a rash of shootings on Israeli highways. A good amount of women and children died, as they were targeted exclusively. This was traced back to Arafat himself. All the while he was pretending to negotiate, for peace he would never agree to, by default. Shaking hands in the rose garden, while Israeli children died by premeditated acts of his design.

Clinton simply didn't want to see this, he refused to believe it.

Its amazing to me that Arafat won the nobel peace prize, he must have been laughing at us the whole time.

[s.rwitt]

Its amazing to me that Arafat won the nobel peace prize, he must have been laughing at us the whole time.

Pretty much. Can't expect much more from a man who said "He who fights for a just cause cannot possibly be called a terrorist".

[Каие]

Pretty much. Can't expect much more from a man who said "He who fights for a just cause cannot possibly be called a terrorist".

Kind of like the stance we took during the Second world war isn't it? Bombing of Dresden and the Atom bombs, and Soviet Rape and massacre? It was all for a just cause.

[ssfsx17]

The moral of the story: Israel thought out the situation a lot more than they seem to have on the surface.

[Princeps]

Shaking hands in the rose garden, while Israeli children died by premeditated acts of his design.

During the peace processes, Israeli violations and crimes have far exceeded Palestinian crimes. Also, while Arafat was hardly anything of a saint, it was he who approached Israel for peace negotiations when Israel refused to accept Palestine and explicitly wanted to wipe it off the map.

A senior US diplomat named Ross was the man behind the scenes for the US directing the negotiations for Clinton, and Israeli intelligence, and the CIA, had both told him there was no doubt that Arafat was still directing terror attacks.

Yeah, and the Israeli leadership was directing collective punishment, state terrorism, land and water robbery, which btw, intensified during the peace process. The negotiatons at Camp David were a cheap sham for the Palestinian people. Clinton simply didn't want to see this, he refused to believe it. (in fact, Clinton was all too willing to sell attack helicopters to Israel, fully knowing they'd be used to massacre and terrorize Palestinians). Almost everytime the Palestinians have played along with Israel and US and their peace schemes, Palestinian have suffered. A lot.

Also, thread starter, find a better article than this piece of piffle. I found quite grotesque bias, such as this:

In part because of the conflict between Fatah and Hamas. Look, it's perfectly clear to me that we won't be able to defeat Israel. My aim was for us, by means of the 'resistance' [code for terror attacks],

[mrmouth]

Princeps, why even post?

We get it, you think Israel is the great Satan, and you find yourself in league with religious nutters bent on killing people in the West because we dont believe what they believe.

More emotional garbage, nothing more.

[rodne]

Princeps, why even post?

We get it, you think Israel is the great Satan, and you find yourself in league with religious nutters bent on killing people in the West because we dont believe what they believe.

More emotional garbage, nothing more.

You don't have to be a "religious nutter" to see the oppression imposed upon Palestinians by Israeli occupiers. Same way in that you don't have to be a regular AIPAC donater to see that Palestinian rockets have killed civilians.

[Princeps]

Princeps, why even post?

Why do you post? Is there some specific reason why I'm not allowed to express my opinions.

We get it, you think Israel is the great Satan, and you find yourself in league with religious nutters bent on killing people in the West because we dont believe what they believe.

Spare my of your pathetic indoctornated piffle. Israel is not the "great satan" -- there are no such celestial fairies. Israeli is, however, a state, and all states are violent to the extent that they're powerful, states are violent institutions after all. Israel is extending its rule, savagely and illegally, upon other people who are not Israeli, upon land that is not Israeli to begin with. It is good to look at the facts sometimes. Israel has for decades savagely imposed an illegal occupation upon the Palestinian people, which includes land robbery, torture chambers, house demolitions, terrorism, savage massacres, bombing and humiliating security barriers and measures, and economic strangulation. Decades of continuous illegality, violence and terror, and about a hundred violated UN resolutions. As long as these facts are not noted in the very beginning of any debate or article concerning the conflict, that debate or article is not principled and remains uninformative.

More emotional garbage, nothing more.

No, facts.

[mrmouth]

No, facts.

No facts? Your the one speaking from a purely emotional standpoint bud. I'm speaking from a standpoint of actually having visited that part of the world, having extended family there, and having read many books on the subject.

Again, we all understand you, you dont like Israel, big deal.

BJ, I still don't know why you posted about poor Israeli women and children dying while Palestinian casualties are in the thousands.

And yet you'd still rather moan about the Israelis targeting, what anyone with a brain would deem military targets, instead of your own fellow Muslims killing one another in mass.

Isreal is the lest of your peoples problems.

[PurpleScotch]

No facts? Your the one speaking from a purely emotional standpoint bud. I'm speaking from a standpoint of actually having visited that part of the world, having extended family there, and having read many books on the subject.

Again, we all understand you, you dont like Israel, big deal.



And yet you'd still rather moan about the Israelis targeting, what anyone with a brain would deem military targets, instead of your own fellow Muslims killing one another in mass.

Isreal is the lest of your peoples problems.

And you think I'm not deeply hurt by that?

[PurpleScotch]

BJ, I still don't know why you posted about poor Israeli women and children dying while Palestinian casualties are in the thousands. I hate it when 'certain' people post about how Israel is being bullied by Muslims and that they are surrounded by powerful nations. It is the other way round, Israel is bullying those surrounding it (Lebanon and the Palestinian people) and Israel is the one killing. They are killing more than the so called "terrorists" of Palestine. A few Israelis dead does not even come close to what Palestinians lost.

I come from a family who suffered from Israeli aggression, my mother's town, Irbid, in north Jordan, was bombed into dust by the Israelis when she was young. My father, he was bombed too in his village, Salfeet, in the West Bank (when it was part of Jordan)...all this happened in 1967, and hearing all those stories only adds oil to the fire that is the hate Arabs have towards Israel.

That's all I have to say, for now...

[Nick_Since_1985]

Chill down guys, the truth is they are both Ass-holes, Palestinians and Israelis alike...

[mrmouth]

Chill down guys, the truth is they are both Ass-holes, Palestinians and Israelis alike...

Absolutely, Ive said that many times. I have no allegiance to either quite honestly. Im sick to death of the whole ME.

All I did was provide an argument based on fact, that Arafat was in fact a terrorist, a wolf in sheep's clothing. Then the nutters come out and attack me for mentioning the murder of Israeli civilians.

And you think I'm not deeply hurt by that?

I wouldn't assume that you wouldn't be hurt by that.

Look man, I would like nothing more than the Palestinians to have their own place in this world, and live in peace, with its neighbors, and with one another. Ive never one time suggested that Israel doesn't have blood on its hands in any of the posts Ive made on this subject, which in fact, are not many.

[Snoopy]

In case you don't know, Israel/Palestine threads get very, very long. I have a word per minute average of 45, and yet it took me half and hour to almost complete a response in the last thread about Israel and Palestine. Then the computer crashed when I was on my last 3 sentences. Never again will I bother trying to debate here, not because its hard, and not because its emotional, but because the response-counter response is so slow, and near the 8th page there are about 30 paragraphs or more in one post.

[humvee2800]

Princeps, isn't it funny how by the end of most israel/palestinian threads israel is generally showed to be on the morale highground, sounds like you simply wish to ignore the facts even when they surround you... you should go find another forum goer named mansa mansa, you two would get along swimmingly.

[Nick_Since_1985]

mansu mansa*

[Princeps]

Princeps, isn't it funny how by the end of most israel/palestinian threads israel is generally showed to be on the morale highground,

After several decades of continued oppression and aggression, this is a very stretched statement. But not unusual in the history of imperialist apologia.

And there was nothing else substantial or interesting in your post.

Also, reports like these do not seem to confer any moral superiority for the Israeli policy makers.

No facts? Your the one speaking from a purely emotional standpoint bud.

No, I speak from the standpoint of the most elementary morality.

I'm speaking from a standpoint of actually having visited that part of the world, having extended family there, and having read many books on the subject.

So what? I have also read dozens of Amnesty international, and other credible reporters and journalists on the region and the situation. And also many books. You don't impress me at all.

Again, we all understand you, you dont like Israel, big deal.

I don't hate Israel, I just hate the ugly sides of Israel. Many here, and elsewhere, seem to be all too willing to utterly bankrupt themselves, as far as their morals go, in order to defend the Israeli state (state is an institution, not the nation, which is the people) policies of apartheid and aggression. I don't defend those policies. I criticize them as any moral person ought to do.

I would also be very critical of any South African racist apartheid regime (not that I wish to imply Israeli state is racist, but it's apartheid regime neverthless, one based on land not race). This doesn't mean that I would dislike or hate South Africa. I have nothing against South Africa or its people.

Arafat was in fact a terrorist, a wolf in sheep's clothing

I agree with that statement. But he's by no means a scapegoat for Israel.

[mrmouth]

Fair enough. We could argue for the rest of our lives and get nowhere.

I think we can all agree that in the end, we would like to see peace in the region, lets just leave it at that.

[Chaigidel]

yes but clearly the great palestinian uprising will never happen, and the arabs have rightfully lost all claim to the holy land-- there will be no two state solution. I am pleased by this failure of the jordanians in Israel.

there is only room for Israel and Israelis.

how does it feel ? all of you who buy into the lie of arab innocence? does it feel interesting to know that they have no hope? and are completely defeated by the Jews?

these people are getting everything they deserve, as soon as they lay down arms and surrender they can be sent peacefully back to jordan and other ARAB states, Israel will be the only nation on that land.

eat it.