World in conflict, Soviet Assault

**humvee2800** · April 04, 2008, 05:34 AM

Well recently games and books seem to have taken another turn towards the idea of a "red tide" usually investigating the future of Russo-american relations or looking once more at the other possibilitys of the past.

The game of the same name as the title of this thread is such a example, others being End war, and red alert 3.

Though in my experience it seems most country's have similar natural enemys, not always in the sence that they actively dislike eachother, but whom they consider and what there current culture (and games) represent as there most common enemy.

This raised the question, what is Russia's enemy? If you saw a russian game instead of "soviet assault" what would you see? "mongol charge" ?

Also what are the natural enemies of other nations.

**Nick_Since_1985** · April 04, 2008, 05:44 AM

To be honest I think the only enemy of Russia is its demography...

EDIT: What is the question anyway, I'am confused... :hmmm:

**humvee2800** · April 04, 2008, 05:50 AM

This raised the question, what is Russia's enemy? If you saw a russian game instead of "soviet assault" what would you see? "mongol charge" ?

Also what are the natural enemies of other nations.

**Enemy of the State** · April 04, 2008, 06:23 AM

Evil fascists from Eastern Europe and Americans.

**Nick_Since_1985** · April 04, 2008, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Estlander

Evil fascists from Eastern Europe and Americans.

You mean those guys from Estland?

EDIT: Besides Russia has become a facist state so I can't agree with you...

**Oberbefehlshaber** · April 07, 2008, 03:21 PM

The only reason people dont like the idea of communism is because they are selfish.

**Panzerbear** · April 07, 2008, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Nex Addo

The only reason people dont like the idea of communism is because they are selfish.

its like saying the only reason people dont like to set themsleves on fire because they are afraid of dying.

you won the golden duh award!

**Oberbefehlshaber** · April 07, 2008, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by .Czar

its like saying the only reason people dont like to set themsleves on fire because they are afraid of dying.

you won the golden duh award!

Im thinking people shouldnt be so self-absorbed, "I want that new ferrari so bad and I also want to be rich and powerful." They should help work for the goals of the state.

Im already in the middle of a pro-communist debate i dont want to start another one.

I know exactly what you are saying. Im thinking for example the U.S., have all the major corporations like Best Buy , Coca-Cola, but just combine some of them for example Best Buy-Circuit City, Coca-Cola-Pepsi. Then make them all govenment property. The government would have twice as much income and taxes would be less, and we could afford universal health care and things of that nature.

As for the individual income problem with communism there would be some sort incentive system.

if you could have a perfect immortal dictator it would work, or just a multigenerational set of moral individuals.

**Panzerbear** · April 08, 2008, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Nex Addo

Im thinking people shouldnt be so self-absorbed, "I want that new ferrari so bad and I also want to be rich and powerful." They should help work for the goals of the state.

Im already in the middle of a pro-communist debate i dont want to start another one.

OK. if you do NOT want a ferrarri, please send the money my way, because I'll take it any day

.

PS: I nevermind communism as long as its is *me* who is in command lol.

**edders** · April 04, 2008, 06:42 AM

It's not just the idea of a 'natural enemy' that makes Russia a popular antagonist but the fact they're closer to a conventional military threat than anyone else. Setting the protagonists of a real-world game/book etc. against the full military might of Russia is a lot cooler than setting them against middle-eastern militias etc.

Anyway, Russia's natural enemy I don't know, I guess in a modern context they might have America being taken over by fascists or something and have them liberated by Russia (similar to how most post-cold war media tends to have Russia being taken over by "ultra-nationalists" or a "hardline military coup"). There's a fair amount of media that posits a Russia v China scenario as well. If it were set in the past or a semi-fantasy world I guess Mongols/Eastern Conquerers, Germnay etc. are likely foes.

**CrimsonGuard** · April 04, 2008, 08:15 AM

I don't think that countries can have "natural" enemies. Everything that is being done is done due to current political situation that's all.

Games do not represent the current political situation, not to mention that US vs SU is a very popular theme.

2:Estlander
LOL, but of course it is completely in order to let former SS-members to have annual parades.

**humvee2800** · April 04, 2008, 08:36 AM

You misunderstand me, though countries do indeed have natural enemies in that there individual wants and needs directly contradict eachother, but that is beside the point.

Natural in the sence im trying to convey is the current natural enemy, or whomever acts as the main foreign enemy that springs to mind when one asks the citizenry of there countries enemies. Fact is for america and much of the western world Russia still is thought of with distate... a state of mind not helped by current russian foreign politics...

I am also not trying to use games as representations of international politics, I am merely using them as a example as they are highly influenced by a nations culture, and often can old representations of common themes, and or fears.

**Rapax** · April 04, 2008, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by CrimsonGuard

I don't think that countries can have "natural" enemies. Everything that is being done is done due to current political situation that's all.

Maybe not natural enemies, but there has been such a thing as traditional enemies.

Russia in modern context always seems to have itself depicted as its worst enemies with some kind of ultranationalists staging a coup to bring back the soviet union or whatever.

**edders** · April 04, 2008, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Rapax

Russia in modern context always seems to have itself depicted as its worst enemies with some kind of ultranationalists staging a coup to bring back the soviet union or whatever.

Yeah, it's essentially a simple sleight-of-hand that lets you use a particular country/organization as an antagonist without giving the impression you actually view the country in this manner.

So the nazis and cold-war era Sovs were frequently used as they were - there was really very little need to sugarcoat the effect of using them as enemies (although there were exceptions - villians might be rogue generals in league with terrorists, mentally deranged politicians etc etc.). By the 90s the majority of stories involving evil Russians were more "politically correct" (sometimes even depicted as wary allies) and China became the big bad (look at the plots of various Tom Clancy novels over the years for a good example of this). This has continued to a degree up through the war on terror, since terrorist suck as antagonists in strategy games.

**Panzerbear** · April 04, 2008, 08:46 AM

I do not think Russia has natural enemies. Well, British have been historically our enemies. Americans as well...

**humvee2800** · April 04, 2008, 08:50 AM

I do not think Russia has natural enemies. Well, British have been historically our enemies. Americans as well...

I always thought germany and scandinavia often butted heads with Russia.

**CrimsonGuard** · April 04, 2008, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by .Czar

I do not think Russia has natural enemies. Well, British have been historically our enemies. Americans as well...

Enemies IS wrong word here, Russian and British conflicted when their interests collided. They were allies in all too many wars to be considered enemies.

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · April 04, 2008, 08:50 AM

Except for World War I, World War II, the Russian Civil War, the Napoleonic War... but hey, history... Czar's interpretation of the world... rarely overlap.

**Panzerbear** · April 04, 2008, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ferrets54

Except for World War I, World War II, the Russian Civil War, the Napoleonic War... but hey, history... Czar's interpretation of the world... rarely overlap.

Ferrets, this is only few instances. furthermore, if anything, during Russian civil war, British expeditionary forces were our enemies (and yes, they were killing Russians on Russian soil, if this is relevant).

... the question is WHO DIDNT WE FIGHT AGAINST throughout our entire history? Germans, French, British, Swedes, Poles, Turks, and so on on the Western side, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans on the Eastern side, Afghans in the South, Americans in the North

.

actually, now that I think about it... the only real allies of Russia has always been Russian Army and Russian Navy.

EDIT: That being said, Russia really likes continental Western Europeans (France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc) + all Eastern Orthodox countries and also views Nordic countries (Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark) as good partners. however, ties with China, Iran and India have also been very significant.

**PurpleScotch** · April 04, 2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by .Czar

... the question is WHO DIDNT WE FIGHT AGAINST throughout our entire history? Germans, French, British, Swedes, Poles, Turks, and so on on the Western side, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans on the Eastern side, Afghans in the South, Americans in the North

.

You didn't fight against us, the Arabs