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    Default Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    And when I say they're in you're class, I mean they're literally part of the class:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Washington Post
    WASHINGTON - In his seven years, Randy Castro has been an aspiring soccer player, an accomplished Lego architect and a Royal Ranger at his Pentecostal church. He also, according to his elementary school record, sexually harassed a first-grade classmate.

    During recess at his Woodbridge school one day in November, when he was 6, he said, he smacked the classmate's bottom. The girl told the teacher. The teacher took Randy to the principal, who told him such behavior was inappropriate. School officials wrote an incident report calling it "Sexual Touching Against Student, Offensive," which will remain on his student record permanently.

    Then, as Randy sat in the principal's office, they called the police.

    "I thought they were going to take me to prison," Randy said recently. "I was scared."

    Prince William County school officials would not comment on Randy's case, citing student confidentiality. They said the call to police was the result of a misunderstanding.

    Randy is only one of many children to be dealt with harshly as schools across the country grapple with enforcing new zero-tolerance sexual harassment policies and the fear of litigation.

    The Virginia Department of Education reported that 255 elementary students were suspended last year for offensive sexual touching, or "improper physical contact against a student." In Maryland, 166 elementary school children were suspended last year for sexual harassment, including three preschoolers, 16 kindergartners and 22 first-graders, according to the State Department of Education. Statistics for the District were not available.

    Label 'doesn't make sense' for little kids
    In 2006, a kindergartner in Hagerstown, Md., was accused of sexual harassment after pinching a female classmate's buttocks. A 4-year-old in Texas was given an in-school suspension after a teacher's aide accused him of sexual harassment for pressing his face into her breasts when he hugged her.

    Ted Feinberg, assistant director of the National Association of School Psychologists in Bethesda, said he had never come across a case of sexual harassment in elementary school in his three decades in the schools. To label somebody a sexual harasser at 6 "doesn't make sense to me," he said. "Kids can be exploratory in behavior, they can mimic what they see on TV."

    Randy sat on the lower bunk in his bedroom recently and explained what happened Nov. 26 on the playground at Potomac View Elementary School. Katherine DeLeon, a classmate who regularly came over to play, was kneeling on a bench, talking to friends. He said he saw another boy race over to the girl, whack her on the bottom and run away, giggling and pretending he hadn't done it. He did it twice more, Randy said.

    Randy said he thought it looked like fun, so he joined in, hitting her and running away twice. "Every time he hit her, she laughed," Randy said. "When I hit her, she told the teacher."

    Katherine's mother, Margarita DeLeon, who was contacted by school officials shortly after the incident, said that her daughter didn't like being hit but that she quickly forgot about it. "We didn't pay attention to it, because we know it's just children playing around," she said. "He didn't mean anything by it. I'm upset with the school."

    Claudia Castro, a preschool teacher in Alexandria, said she was shocked when officials at Randy's school called to say that he was in trouble and that they were calling the police. She later met with the principal and assistant principal. "I told them that what he did was not appropriate. And I have talked to him about it. What I don't understand is how you can make a police report on a 6-year-old. But the principal told me that they were making reports to the police every single day."

    The school's incident report, provided to The Washington Post by Randy's family, says the "police were contacted" after the playground episode. Police arrived after dismissal, when Randy had already gone home. Castro said she shared the story with The Post in the hope of changing school policy.

    Confusion over police reports
    Days before the incident, at a routine meeting with district officials, principals had been reminded to report threats and assaults to the police. "There was some confusion as to what level of threat and assault we were talking about," said Ken Blackstone, a school system spokesman.

    Some officials and students said Potomac View administrators made an announcement that a new district policy required them to inform the police of student misbehavior. But Blackstone said there was no new policy. After the meeting, he said, principals were confused about when to call police. "As a result, there were too many calls that may not have been necessary because of people wanting to comply with the initial request."

    "Some of the calls," Prince William police spokeswoman Ericka Hernandez said, "were about incidents the police did not have to be involved in."

    Blackstone pointed to the school district's code of behavior, which states that police may be called for "offenses involving weapons, alcohol/drugs, intentional injury, and other serious violations."

    Two school board members declined to comment on the case, and Blackstone would not make the Potomac View principal available for comment.

    Mary Kay Sommers, president of the National Association of Elementary School Principals, said suspensions and calls to the police in such cases are overkill. The correct response, she said, would be to explore whether the behavior is linked to abuse and to teach students about respecting peers and what constitutes "good touch" or "bad touch."

    "There's no way these children understand what's going on. But it's been taken out of our hands. That's the difficult moral dilemma that we face," Sommers said. She blamed two Supreme Court decisions from the 1990s that enable suits against school districts for failing to stop sexual harassment as well as zero-tolerance policies aimed at middle and high school students that are applied to students as young as 5.

    "We need to make sure that we follow the letter of the law, so being reasonable sometimes gets lost," she said.

    But Ronald Stephens, executive director of the National School Safety Center, said educators do have some leeway: "Zero tolerance does not mean zero good judgment."

    Branded a 'bad boy'?
    Since November, Randy has been calling himself a "bad boy," his mother said.

    Castro said school officials rejected her appeal to remove the sexual harassment incident from Randy's permanent file. And now she worries that they have branded him a troublemaker.

    She points to an incident in January when Randy was suspended for three days for verbal "harassment" and inappropriate behavior. According to the principal's incident report, as Randy walked home from school, he told two girls to kiss and asked another student, "Are you gay?" and "Why are you wearing girl's boots?"

    Randy and his siblings, who were walking with him that day, dispute the account. They said he teased an older boy and girl about kissing. He said if the boy didn't kiss the girl, it meant he was gay. Randy said he learned the word on TV.

    School officials, citing confidentiality, declined to comment on the incident.

    Castro agreed that Randy's behavior was inappropriate but worried that he is being too severely scrutinized because of the spanking incident. "My feeling is that they are picking on him," she said.

    Castro said she met again with school officials and asked why, if they were concerned about Randy, he wasn't in counseling. "The counselor told me he didn't need it," she said.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23928454/

    I've frequently remarked that the American legal system has long since surpassed the bounds of common sense when it comes to punishing "illegal sexual activity," particularly after reading about judges in Virginia forcing college kids to register as sex offenders for pissing in an alley outside of a bar after midnight (an offence I committed more times than I could count in undergrad) and laws in Florida that effectively forced registered sex offenders to live under bridges in the middle of lakes. But this? This is downright absurd on a level I've never seen before.

    If you didn't read the article, here's a summary: elementary students across the nation are being labeled "sex offenders" by various school systems and having the label placed on their permanent school record. In Virginia alone 255 elementary students were suspended in 2007 alone for illegal sexual activity, including three preschoolers and 16 kindergartners. Preschoolers?! It's bad enough that the government is actively preventing parents from punishing their kids in certain ways (spanking is illegal in many jurisdictions), but now they're replacing it with official and permanent sanctions. For example: a 5 year old male kindergarten student touches the butt of a female student. The female student complains to a teacher. Fast forward a few days: the male student has now been suspended from class AND has the label "sex offender" placed on his permanent record. 13 years later, university admissions committees are going to see this. While I hope that most of them would display the common sense to disregard such a record, reality has taught me that many admissions committees are far from being that reasonable.

    Sadly, the bipartisan method of punishing sex crimes is one example of the slippery slope fallacy being anything but fallacious. First the government started punishing adults for molesting children - few can disagree that this is proper. Then the government started punishing adults who enjoyed looking at child porn but never had improper physical contact with children - still pretty reasonable, but getting close to the edge. Then the government made possession of child porn a strict liability offence, meaning that adults could be thrown in jail if they were found with child porn on their computer whether they intended to acquire it or even knew they possessed it (and deleting it upon discovery in the former case doesn't clear you unless you're familar with the archaic methods of securely cleaning a hard drive) - we're stumbling over the edge, particularly with the introduction of mislabeled files on P2P networks. And now we're categorizing children who have just only been weaned from breastfeeding (note the 4-year old preschooler in the article above who was suspended for rubbing his face in a college girl's breasts) as sex offenders and leaving the label there for the duration of their time in public schools. At this point we're sliding down the hill at an absurd rate.

    Forget the issue of waterboarding foreign enemy combatants. Forget the "civil rights" of illegal aliens. Forget the early release of crack addicts. The government is categorizing a few thousand (a most conservative estimate) little kids as "sex offenders" each year - and civil rights advocates don't even blink an eye. You don't have to throw a person in jail to ruin their future through government intervention.
    Last edited by Erich von Manstein; April 03, 2008 at 11:04 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Its absurd but I can almost see the reasoning behind it namely school systems are so scared of being sued, with being labeled as turning a blind eye to student harassment (note this doesnt seem to apply when its teachers doing it as evidenced by the numerous stories of female teacher/male student scandsl) that it has little choice but to call the police in on these situtations when of course leads to these stupid charges. I mean hell there was a school that suspended a girl for passing out drugs without approval, her crime? She gave an aspirin to another girl who had a headache. Sex crime laws need a complete and utter revamping in this country and it wont happen because every soccer mom will be out there crying WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN which evidently involved wrapping all kids into airtype plastic bubbles to avoid any accidently contact with another human being. Meanwhile loney sex starved female teachers will continue to prey on male students.
    Last edited by danzig; April 03, 2008 at 10:07 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    This has to be the most stupid thing I've seen today.
    Christ what an idiotic school.
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    yxc qwert!'s Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Typical America.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by yxc qwert! View Post
    Typical America.
    Insightful, thought provoking addition!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Insightful, thought provoking addition!
    You can't realize how incredible it looks seen from another country.

    Honestly, it sounds like some Kafka book.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by krips22 View Post
    You can't realize how incredible it looks seen from another country.

    Honestly, it sounds like some Kafka book.
    What other countries dont have stupid, overreaching officals/laws? We both know they do, to me its also absurd seeing Germany's hardline stance on violent video games as if people are all going to run out gunning people down GTA style because of a game. The stuff in the original post is indeed incredibly stupid to have happen but "typical american" adds nothing to the conversation. As I said alot of this comes about as a result of fear of being sued if they dont do something so they pass the buck.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Logic and common sense are being thrown out more and more in exchange for rigid and flawed rules.

  9. #9
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    I am probably a sex offender then.
    I take it all the sex offenders were male, Erich? Is that right?

    Germany's hardline stance on violent video games
    Boohoo.
    Cry me a river.
    Registering a kindergarden kid as a sex offender is several logarithmic magnitudes more moronic than the violent video game stance.
    I'd rather the US have a clamp on violent video games than registering little kids as sex offenders.
    Last edited by sephodwyrm; April 03, 2008 at 10:33 AM.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm View Post
    I am probably a sex offender then.
    I take it all the sex offenders were male, Erich? Is that right?
    From the article sounds it and wouldnt be suprising. Laws are so slanted to benefit of females that pretty much passing wind in the presences of a woman probably get you sex offender tag.

    Boohoo.
    Cry me a river.
    Registering a kindergarden kid as a sex offender is several logarithmic magnitudes more moronic than the violent video game stance.
    I'd rather the US have a clamp on violent video games than registering little kids as sex offenders.
    I wasnt making a comparison thank you I was simply pointing out something stupid but thanks for missing the point.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm View Post
    I am probably a sex offender then.
    I take it all the sex offenders were male, Erich? Is that right?
    No, I believe the article listed one female student as well. That being said, those labeled as "sex offenders" both in the school system and in the overall legal system are overwhelmingly male. So much so that while law professors and lawyers are required by the American Bar Association to describe all unknown persons using the feminine noun in class or in court ("she" or "her"), an exception is made for discussions regarding sex offenders (and, to a certain extent, all criminals) in which it is ok to use the masculine.
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    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    thanks for missing the point.
    Thanks for missing my point.
    This stupid over-reaching law is SEVERAL ORDER OF MAGNITUDE greater than that of a supposed violent video game or the outright banning of certain religions (even!). The Comparison made, as I have said, is moronic, makes no sense (and Germans are laughing) and moronic. Did I say moronic already?
    Let me say it again:
    Clamp on video games <<<<<<<<<<<<e10<<<< Registering your 4 year old as a sex offender

    Justifying an insane rule that is definitely an intrusion on human rights is ridiculous. Why couldn't they just slap the kid's hands a bit? Sexual offender at 3...yeah...gimme a break. I was one. I read my parents' porn. Come arrest me.
    Last edited by sephodwyrm; April 03, 2008 at 10:39 AM.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm View Post
    Thanks for missing my point.
    This stupid over-reaching law is SEVERAL ORDER OF MAGNITUDE greater than that of a supposed violent video game or the outright banning of certain religions (even!).
    And did I SAY otherwise? I simply pointed out something stupid in another country sheesh. Of course being labeled as a sex offender is more serious as I said I wasnt comparing so please dont make assumptions.

    Justifying an insane rule that is definitely an intrusion on human rights is ridiculous. Why couldn't they just slap the kid's hands a bit? Sexual offender at 3...yeah...gimme a break. I was one. I read my parents' porn. Come arrest me.
    As I said fear schools pretty much call in police on everything now. No principle, teacher or school board seems to want to even bother approaching discipline anymore. Somewhere along the line teachers gave up on telling a kid he shouldnt do anything otherwise next day they would have an irrate parent in their face screaming at them.

  14. #14
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    I simply pointed out something stupid in another country sheesh.
    You pointed out something LESS STUPID and JUSTIFIABLE.
    Pointing out something stupid in another country contributes:
    1. adds nothing to the discussion on the insanity of this rule
    2. is a lame attempt (and moronic one) to justify this insane rule
    3. apologetic
    4. did I say moronic again
    5. it is moronic

    I said I wasnt comparing
    Then why bother talk about Germany's rules, pilgrim?
    Typical American.
    I just wonder how one can do one thing and deny it altogether in the same post.
    Maybe all Americans were gifted to become politicians.

    please dont make assumptions.
    Cry me a river.
    Insane laws are not justified by citing another country's insane laws.
    Last edited by sephodwyrm; April 03, 2008 at 10:45 AM.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm View Post
    You pointed out something LESS STUPID and JUSTIFIABLE.
    Pointing out something stupid in another country contributes:
    1. adds nothing to the discussion on the insanity of this rule
    2. is a lame attempt (and moronic one) to justify this insane rule
    3. apologetic
    4. did I say moronic again
    5. it is moronic
    Hey not my fault if you didnt understand the point maybe next time try ignoring it of you think its so moronic eh? Or would you just like to say moronic again?

  16. #16
    DimondLight's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm View Post
    You pointed out something LESS STUPID and JUSTIFIABLE.
    Pointing out something stupid in another country contributes:
    1. adds nothing to the discussion on the insanity of this rule
    2. is a lame attempt (and moronic one) to justify this insane rule
    3. apologetic
    4. did I say moronic again
    5. it is moronic


    Then why bother talk about Germany's rules, pilgrim?
    Typical American.
    I just wonder how one can do one thing and deny it altogether in the same post.
    Maybe all Americans were gifted to become politicians.


    Cry me a river.
    Insane laws are not justified by citing another country's insane laws.
    Ok, all you're really doing is sounding like an immature little kid. All he is saying is that somebody said "typical America" because it's a stupid rule, and he pointed out that other countries have crazy rules too. GET OVER IT.
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  17. #17
    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Hey not my fault if you didnt understand the point
    "typical american" adds nothing to the conversation.
    It does now.
    And very much so.

    A, B and C: Gods what an insane rule. Is this American?
    D: Germany does it, too...because they have this rule about something else completely.
    E: Now that's moronic. Germany does not DO IT, TOO.
    D: Thanks for missing my point
    E: Feh. Typical American.
    E: Oh yeah, and Moronic as well.
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  18. #18
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    i remember in year/grade 9/10 (this is only going back 5 or so years) i too slapped the ass of a few girls (as a joke) and i got it back more then once.
    never once did any member of staff (and many did see it) call the police or considered it a sexual offence.

    in middle school (we are going back about 7 or so years) one girl did take it the wrong way and complained, but it didnt even reach the head teacher. the teacher in question just called my mum and said i must not do it anymore, i didnt even get a detetion or anything, and my mum just said "dont do it"

    that is how it should be delt with, common sense. and thats how its delt with in the uk. why o why are they doing this in the states? just because someone slaps someone else on the ass doesnt mean they are going to grow up into a rapist, i didn't. its completely pointless.
    Last edited by LoZz; April 03, 2008 at 11:49 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by LoZz View Post

    that is how it should be delt with, common sense. and thats how its delt with in the uk. why o why are they doing this in the states?
    Cause the kid will go home tell their parent and the parent will see $$$ contact a lawyer and next thing you know 10million dollar lawsuit against the school district for failing to protect their kid from sexual harrassment.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Sex offenders in your kid's kindergarten class!

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig View Post
    Cause the kid will go home tell their parent and the parent will see $$$ contact a lawyer and next thing you know 10million dollar lawsuit against the school district for failing to protect their kid from sexual harrassment.
    really? i find it hard to imagen a parent who would want a 6 year old considered a sex offender just because he slapped his/her daughters ass.

    we have an excessive lawsuit culture in the uk as well (known as the compensation culture) but even we dont go to this extreme.
    i find this deeply disturbing and there is something more going on here then just the fear of lawsuits.

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